Swissonic Converters clicking after several hours operation

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Simmons

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I use the Swissonic AD mk2 converters and the sound quality is fantastic, but lately I've noticed that after several hours the unit begins to produce clicks that get worse and worse. If I power down and let the unit cool down..it goes away. I use the Swissonic's clock to keep my RME Multiface in sync. Has anyone ever had this problem? Would an external dedicated clock remedy this issue?

Simmons
 
I had the same issue with the digital out on my hdr. Heatwas definately the problem, i now am FORCED to use a fan. the hardisk kept oevrheating and then dig output woudl get scrambled...
 
It sounds like a heat related issue. Get one of those small personal fans, and have it blow across across the unit. That should hopefully solve the problem.
 
Make it a battery-powered fan, or at least DC because an AC fan is gonna add line noise to your power supply, by which I mean your 120v AC circuit.
 
yeah, i have the most buttugly battery operated fluorescent green mini-desk-fan (with velvet fan blades without protection..) that you can imaging. It works and is silent enough to keep it out of my recordings...

Glenn
 
Ok..this is sucking.

I don't think this is a heat problem. I have a fan on it and after only 30 minutes of operation....not even long enough for it to heat up....it starts clicking and again. I have no idea why. The unit has worked perfectly for anearly a year (for hours on end...heat and all) and now after about two weeks this starts happening. I haven't added anything to my system. When I take the Swissonic unit out of the loop and use the RME converters everything is fine...no clicking, so it definitely the Swissonic converters. I have tried all channels of the unit....same problem in all channels.

The setup is LDVC -> Swissonic -> RME (via ADAT lightpipe) - > computer.....pretty striaght forward.

Any ideas. I'll definitely contact Swissonic, but I'm not sure how much help they're going to be.
 
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-----Original Message-----
From: swissonic.com (auto reply) [mailto:info@swissonic.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 3:10 PM
To: Dale Simmons
Subject: Re: Swissonic AS 24 mk2

The account info@swissonic.com is no more in use.


I'll definitely contact Swissonic, but I'm not sure how much help they're going to be.
Click to expand...
......well....now I'm sure.

Anyone else got any idears?
 
I'd say try taking the top of the case off and blow the fan directly into it, just to see if that makes a difference. It's going to be a lot hotter inside the case than you can feel from touching the outside of it. Also, if the unit is in a rack with gear above and below you won't be getting much ventilation, and the fan won't be very effective that way.

In your first post you mention that it starts clicking after several hours, but in your most recent post you say it began in 30 minutes. Does that mean the problem has gotten worse?

Another question: if it starts clicking after being on for a while and you turn it off and then *immediately* turn it back on again, will it start clicking right away upon restart or will it be good for another 30 minutes or so?

Also, there are different kinds of clicks. I'm wondering if your clicking is the kind that happens with a loss of sync. It is possible that it is losing sync after a time. Is there a way to refresh that from a software control panel? Does the clicking start when you switch software applications on your computer or do a save?
 
Personally, this does not sound like a heat issue that could be solved with a fan. Swissonic makes pretty good sounding converters. I highly reccomend having a pro look at it because it sounds like there is a real problem here and it may not be solvable without replacing parts. You mentioned above "almost a year". Does this mean it is still under warranty? If so I highly reccomend NOT popping the cover off and sending it in as quickly as possible. Heat problems may be a symptom and the source of your issues. In this case no amount of fans will keep it from deteriorating further. Not to mention, you really shouldn't have to do things like that to make a piece of gear function within its intended parameters.
 
It's not a heat issue. Now it happens about 5 minutes or so after switched on. It's in a rack, but there's nothing above it or below it. It gets plenty of air. It seems to have gotten progressively worse and worse.

Swissonic had no technical support that I can find on the net. Any Swissonic users out there ever contacted support? I just called Zurich and the phone number listed is no longer valid....just like the email address on their website. I'm getting a sinking feeling here....
 
Well.....support in the US doesn't seem to exist either.



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You might want to try a repair shop and see if they can get in contact with Swissonic, or fix it themselves. Otherwise, you might have to make the ultimate sacrifice---the garbage can. I'll never forget the feeling when I tossed a piece of gear that cost me $6,000 into the trash. It wasn't working and it wasn't worth repairing. Kind of like your converter, frankly.

Ultimately, most gear is disposable, although I've found analog gear to have a much longer lifespan and *useful* lifespan. I hope you can get your problem solved though, as it's a bummer when gear goes bad.
 
Swissonic was bought by a large telecommunications firm, and that firm discontinued the converter line. That is what www.plus24.net told me when I called.

I have one of those Swissonic boxes. I gotta admit, the first time I used it it stopped passing audio after several hours of use. I did have it on top of two other hot units though, I let it cool down for a few minutes and moved it away from the other units and it has been fine since. That was a heat issue.

I bought mine cheap man, $399 for the 4 channel unit. It sounds fine for my project studio. I knew they were out of business when I bought it, so I am taking my chances with it. When it breaks, it breaks.

You may contact Plus24 and ask them if they have techs who can service the unit if needed. I'm also wondering if you have a clock issue etc. (have you tried it with another unit besides your RME card?) but the whole after 5 minutes thing says probably not...?

War
 
I spent some more time of this issue this weekend and now I'm leaning towards a clocking issue again. If I switch the Swissonic box to receive external clock (and calibrate in this position) and switch the RME card to Master (nothing locks...but I don't expect it to since I'm only connected with the ADAT out)...something seems to "reset" and the unit will work ok for about 3 to 5 minutes..then things start slipping again and the click comes back. I can repeat the process over and over with the same behavior.

I guess I need to explore the idea of purchasing a clock, but I would hate to buy a clock and still have the clicking problem. That would really be a waste because I will end up using the RME converters anyway if the clock doesn't resolve the Swissonic issue.

One question for the group....
If I bought an external clock, do you think the difference would be audible even if I were using them for the RME (in the even that the clock didn't resolve the click problem). Or maybe I'm trying to rationalize a purchase:)

I've heard that an external clock would improve sound quality, but does anyone have first hand experience of this?
 
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First, yes, an external clock will greatly influence the sound of your converters... all of them. The clock and the analog electronics are the two main variables in A/D-D/A converters... if the clock isn't stable, you're going to hear the instability... with greater stability of the clock comes clearer audio, same with the analog electronics... the better the filters, the better the headroom, the better the resolution of the analog amplifiers, the better the converter will sound. Each small step forward pretty much doubles the price, which is why you have converters that are several thousand dollars for two channels, and converters that are a few hundred for 8 channels. This is an extremely superficial explanation... but it's about as deep as I feel like getting into it at the moment.

Second, give this a try [you have nothing to lose at this point... right?] Pull the unit out of the rack, remove the lid. Vacuum out all the dust inside the unit, put the lid back on, then evaluate where it was in the rack.

I know you said you had an airspace above and below it, but have you added any digital or tube based hardware below the converter in your rack? As we all know, heat rises... so if you added anything that procuces heat beneath the unit you may want to rearrange the rack.

Digital equipment produces a lot of heat [a whole lot of heat]... most failures in the digital world can be traced back to a heat issue, the build up of dust within a unit is indeed a very real cause for a heat issue... especially in "budget" digital equipment.

Best of luck with it.
 
Rack is arranged like this: Langevin DVC (from Mercenary) on top. Swissonic is left half-rack three 3 spaces below the DVC. TL Audio FatMan (never switched on) in the other half...with nothing below them.

I will check on the dust thing...as you said...I have nothing to lose at this point.
 
simmons, I don't quite understand what you did with your experiment regarding the Swissonic/RME and how they were connected. Does the Swissonic have a word clock input, and did you clock the Swissonic to the RME? All you need to do is feed the Swissonic some clock (if it has WC input) and that will tell you whether you have a clocking problem. If you lock it to external sync and it still clicks, then the unit is messed up.

It is possible that the clicking you are describing is clock drift, i.e. two units gradually falling out sync. But in your scenario that doesn't seem very likely. The reason being that you clock the RME to the Swissonic, so the duty of syncing is on the RME. If the Swissonic drifts, the RME should go right with it.

The best test as far as syncing, would be to feed the Swissonic external word clock and see if the problem dissapears.
 
I would definately clock the Swissonic to the RME for right now. Adding an external clock would be money well spent. Even high quality converters can benefit form a good stable clock source. Not only that, but in this ever growing digital world, I see buying an clock generator/distributor as a good forward looking purchase. Inevitably you will most likely be adding more and more digital gear as time goes by in which case the clock will actually become more and more useful. Not to mention making each of your new pieces sound better as well as making your old ones sound better. Remember though, if you que up a single track, the external clock may not seem like it is revolutionizing your sound. However, having a better clock (and in return better D/A and A/D) will make a pretty sizable difference when stacked up over 24 tracks (or even just 8). Just for reference, the Lucid and the Aardvark clocks seem to do a really good job, and aren't too expensive. Apogee now has the Big Ben out and if I remember right it sells for around $1300. That may be out of your range, but the Apogee has TONS of diiferent clocking and routing an reclocking options, tons of I/O types, and first reports I am hearing from users say that it has totally changed their sound in a positive manner. Consider that most of these users are using low/midgrade converters. I would place the RME converters (personal opinion of course) frimly in the midgrade converter category.
 
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