Supid question? I'm having trouble thinking this one through

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jagular
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Jagular

Jagular

Active member
I got the following email from someone who heard a song that I posted at NWR. First I have no delusions that this is going to make me a whole lot of money, so let’s just start there. Here is the message & then my questions follow:

Hi John,
I just heard the song The Gift, and I think your music is great! I really
loev that song. I was
just wondering if you would consider writing for other people or if you
allowed other people to record your music... I'm a
19-year-old country singer and am looking for some unique songs to record. I
just had one of the cover songs I recorded played on the radio, and have
some originals from various songwriters but would definitely be interested
in talking with you about the possibility of recording any of your songs. I
can send you a demo if you're interested in hearing a sample of my
voice. Please get in touch with me at [(deleted address). I hope to speak
with you soon!
Click to expand...

OK, I never really thought about or researched this angle. I always kind of labored under the assumption that I would follow the traditional route through a publisher. What are the things I should be thinking about if I decided to let someone record one of my songs? Should I start my own publishing company? What are the possible pitfalls of doing this? What are the possible advantages of doing this? How do I know I would be compensated for use of my work (my guess is I wouldn’t have a clue how it was being used)?

I know these are general questions. Hopefully there are some of you here that may have some insight.

Thanks in advance. Now let’s have a lively discussion ;) :D
 
Since it's still in the talking phase, what would hurt to find out what he has in mind? He may have a publisher that he is working with that just doesn't have the inventory he needs to choose from. Since it doesn't sound like he writes any songs himself, he may not have a publisher at all. It does sound like he is out there hustling, which can be a good thing. If you start a publishing company, you'll have to set it up with all the legal stuff intact, so be prepared to put up a few bucks for that. Being your own publisher adds to your income, although most self-published writers give up half of their publishing rights to the artists publisher. Go for it! You never know where things like this will lead.


bd
 
Go for it, indeed!

What bdbdbuck said is true- find out more. DEFINITELY give him a listen first off. He could sound like crap, then I think your choice is easy. If he sounds good, has the right attitude (i.e. work work work...moving to Nashville?) then you may have something. If nothing else, and he sounds good, maybe you've got someone to sing on your demos - which is the most important part of the demo.

You never know what star to which your wagon might get hitched (Just ask John Williams.) I think Clint Black co-writes his stuff with basically one guy as well.

Currently I work with a film maker doing his music and hopefully HE will get attention from the big boys and then maybe I can tag along. Tapping into young talent on the rise is one of the best avenues to break in - I mean THEY are the vehicles for your tunes, and the well-known folks already HAVE success for which they probably won't change the formula.

My publishing co. is through BMI and it was simple to do and cost @ $100. Attorney's fees are a different matter - but cross that bridge when you come to it...but definitely get both! IF this singer is on the ball and has a publisher already, then yes, you will probbaly have to go halvsies - which is common.

It's still cool when someone digs your stuff.

Good luck!
 
Thanks bdbdbuck & gascap. I’ll definitely get a demo from her (you wouldn’t have known that she was a her because I got rid of her name & email address). Maybe I should ask for a picture too ;) :D. I appreciate the feedback.

The copyright for song she is interested in is already registered, so I’m covered there. I wonder what it costs to set up the publishing company. :eek:

And BTW…I’ll do my own demo singing thank you very much :mad: ;) :D (j/k – if it meant getting a cut I’d step back :D)

I’m still interested to hear if anyone else has any things I need to watch out for or stories or tips or whatever. :)
 
sheesh! My wife would kill me for assuming it was a guy. Sorry all!

UNfortunately far more emphasis is placed on looks over talent with the fems in this biz. A sad truth.

I think BMI is still @ $100 to set up your pub. co. Check www.bmi.com - I'm sure it will tell you. I like their on-line song registration abilities too (I think ascap has this now too, but for a long time, they did not)

I used to think I could hack recording my own vox on a demo until I moved to Nashville and witnessed the talent pool first hand (wow!) - still, go for it!

Good luck! (again)
 
Just a note on that publishing company, don't forget a legitimate business lisence, bank account....perhaps even some money in the bank account, etc. Do some research on starting your own publishing company....there's some good info out there on the net.
As far as waiting to hear horror stories.......unless an agreement is signed, your risk is minimal as long as your music is registered with the copyright office. You're not going to sign an agreement without a lawyer.......what's not to like? I dunno maybe I'm missing something.


bd
 
wow.. very cool

what an idea.. start your own publishing company in nashville.. why the hell not!!

ill build your web site! :)

-alex
 
alexspetty said:
wow.. very cool

what an idea.. start your own publishing company in nashville.. why the hell not!!

ill build your web site! :)

-alex
Click to expand...

hehe... yeah...there's like no compitition. LOL

I'll keep the website thing in mind if I ever need one :D
 
Jagular - Looks like you folks have the situation pretty well figured out, but I'll throw in a couple of things since I do these kinds of deals routinely with young performers.

Once I hear their voice and get some impression of what kind of music they're into or capable of getting into, I send them some worktapes/cds of songs that they might be interested in with a Provisional Release permitting them to work with the song, perform it publicly and make demos of them for a period of (usually 90 days). In exchange I get a master of any demos made and permission to use it as a demo for the songs. We mutually agree that any demos sent out by either party feature our respective writer and performer information.

On some of these I've ended up issuing fairly long-term licenses myself for live performances of the songs. As you surmise the money is minimal, but it's steady and keeps my songs being heard by a wide variety of people. I've also gotten a few decent quality demos out of these arrangements, which is important to me because I'm a non-performing writer.

Good luck, it's worked fairly well for me with a few exceptions. Any problems I've encountered have been minimal,
 
peter d,
That's a pretty damn good idea, I'd like to see a copy of the lisencing agreement. Did you have an attorney draft it, or do it yourself?




bd
 
That's alot like how a writer/friend of mine works it in Nashville. He's a very talented guy (writer/producer/etc...), and manages to hook up with an artist who 'happens' to be cutting a demo or indy album (in a good studio w/ players) No matter what happens after, at the very least he walks away with a killer demo.

Another angle he worked was to co-write with a guy under contract with Sony Tree. They came up with some good stuff AND with the co-writer's big boss having major pitching power, one got cut by a big name. My friend made more money then the Sony writer from the song because he wasn't beholden to Sony. I'm not sure how common such a relationship is, but it was a neat story to learn about (first royalty check was @ $50K...they grew much smaller after that...still!)

I guess the conclusion I came away with was that the road to 'success' can be forged many ways.
 
bdbdbuck said:
peter d,
That's a pretty damn good idea, I'd like to see a copy of the lisencing agreement. Did you have an attorney draft it, or do it yourself?




bd
Click to expand...

Ditto...that's the kind of stuff I'm after. And how do you end up getting the money? I don't care if it's minimal. Even a few hundred bucks would help me get some more gear that I desparately need for my own recording. If you're not giving away any secrets, I sure would love to here more detail about this. If you can't then I understand. Thanks either way. :)
 
gascap said:
That's alot like how a writer/friend of mine works it in Nashville. He's a very talented guy (writer/producer/etc...), and manages to hook up with an artist who 'happens' to be cutting a demo or indy album (in a good studio w/ players) No matter what happens after, at the very least he walks away with a killer demo.

Another angle he worked was to co-write with a guy under contract with Sony Tree. They came up with some good stuff AND with the co-writer's big boss having major pitching power, one got cut by a big name. My friend made more money then the Sony writer from the song because he wasn't beholden to Sony. I'm not sure how common such a relationship is, but it was a neat story to learn about (first royalty check was @ $50K...they grew much smaller after that...still!)

I guess the conclusion I came away with was that the road to 'success' can be forged many ways.
Click to expand...

That’s why I moved to Nashville in the first place. I haven’t been able to get out and network like I should as my daughter was born shortly after we moved down here. She takes up most of my time (rightly so and no complaints here). Now that she is a little older (just turned 3) I will probably start sneaking out a night a week or so or just here and there.

I would love to hook up with a writer here in Nashville who is doing it for a living just to have a mentor of sorts and maybe do some co-writing (just a dream so far – I’ve actually never co-written before). But before I do that I need to get a few more of what I think are good solid songs completed. I have several completed but I’m not a big fan of most of them. I chalk them up to learning experiences. :D
 
Good luck, Jagular.

I relocated back to K.C. @ 2 years ago, or I'd say we could have lunch and exchange some ideas. I have several writing buddies still going strong in TN. If you like, I can maybe help you forward some samples of your work to them - for feedback, if nothing else.

You never know.

I sure do miss the music scene there.

What part of town are you in? We lived in Kingsting Springs. Very nice terrain.

Good Luck!
 
gascap said:
Good luck, Jagular.

I relocated back to K.C. @ 2 years ago, or I'd say we could have lunch and exchange some ideas. I have several writing buddies still going strong in TN. If you like, I can maybe help you forward some samples of your work to them - for feedback, if nothing else.

You never know.

I sure do miss the music scene there.

What part of town are you in? We lived in Kingsting Springs. Very nice terrain.

Good Luck!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the well wishes.

I actually live in Franklin. I just may take you up on that somewhere down the line. ;) :D
 
We came VERY close to moving to Franklin from K.S.- it was either there or back to K.C. Franklin's a cool town.

Let me know when/if you need my few writer introductions

Cheers!
 
BD & Jagular - I'll be glad to share the form releases and correspondence with anyone who would like a copy. I drafted them and had them reviewed by an attorney I use to work for. He in turn, had them reviewed by an entertainment attorney (whose practice was mainly performer oriented). Lastly, we got an attorney who used to do some collection suits for BMI to review them.

Re getting paid - I belong to ASCAP and rely on them to pick up any live performances, which they currently aren't very good at doing, so my monetary return is minimal. After the initial 90-day period, if someone really likes the song and wants to continue using it in live performances, we'll negotiate a flat fee and I give them another release which they use to show clubs or ASCAP if any monitors happen to get after them about using one of my songs.So far, it's worked well and I get a fair amount of feedback from folks, including producers and managers looking to record material.

I have the documents set up using WordPerfect 9 wordprocessing program. Send me a PM with your e-mail addresses and I'll send what I've got as a file attachment. If anyone can't re-format WordPerfect documents, let me know and I'll try to do them on Word Pad or some generic program. I'm leaving in the morning for the weekend, so it may be Monday or Tuesday evening before I can reply.
 
Wow…that’s great man. PM on its way.

(I guess I better get off my arse and go look into getting affiliated with ASCAP or BMI.) :D
 
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