Suggestions for PC newbies

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dword2002

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I have some experience with tape based recording and am currently looking into going digital. I'm interested in the ADAT format but I also plan to do a lot of cutting and pasting. One of my concerns is if I can get the same quality recording to my hard drive as I would using an ADAT or similar product. Also, if PC based will do the job, what sort of interface would I need. I have a Mackie 32 channel mixer, assorted effects, and plan on doing mostly "one man band" recordings at home, but might occasionaly have multiple musicians recording. I also want to get into doing some digital video. Is there a brand/model of PC that someone might recommend that would excell in this area? Or if there's no particular "best" PC, what components (sound card, processor, etc.) works best. What other forums might I check for this type of information? Thanks for any info.
 
In short....I think you would be very impressed with the power in PC recording and audio cards available today.
A high end PC is recommended. P4 CPU, 512-2gig of ram, high end mobo. If your planning on going this route then invest in a good machine. Software and interfaces are plentiful and you can get the recommendations at this BBS. Do some research first and come back when you have some thoughts and more questions.
 
I am using a fairly modest PC by todays standards (Athlon 750, 300MB RAM, 20GB Disk, Soundblaster Live) and I have been able to get some pretty decent recordings so far.

It depends a lot on how much you want the PC to be involved - if you are mainly just recording audio and need to just cut and paste it and edit, then a fairly modest PC shoul dbe fine. If however you want to add a stack of effects (Pc generated VST effects) and other things that require extra processing, a more beefy PC is recommended.

As for software, I started with Magix Audio Studio - I still use it a bit today and I picked it up for £40 at PC World. I now use Cubase VST/32 but the choice is yours.

Jono
 
If you already have a good mixer/processor setup then I would go with a HDR. The Alesis and lower end Mackie 24ch recorders are about the same price as a new DAW and they are much easier to use and more reliable. You can also hook up a video monitor for editing.

Computer DAW's are very powerfull but you will spend about a grand on sound cards just to have 8-10 tracks of okay i/o. Once you add in some software you are way beyond the cost of a good HDR.
 
Thanks to all who have replyed to this post. I'm learning lots of good stuff already. I just had a "DUH" moment, in more ways than one. The post from "TexRoadkill" makes perfect sense. I was thinking in terms of using my PC as the recording medium and was trying to figure out how I was going to get more than two inputs (L & R) into it from a 32 channel mixer. Granted, it's doubtful in the near future that I would need 32+ tracks but using several sound sources via midi it could add up fast. Having a dedicated HDR would already have multiple inputs eliminating the need to buy an interface system (Gina, Layla, etc.). If I understand correctly, I could record multiple tracks to my PC using an interface, but it seems more logical to have a unit dedicated to doing just that. I suppose one contrast would be the limitations of the number of tracks on an HDR as opposed to the number of tracks possible for a given interface. Any "pros, cons" out there?
 
Most decent HDR's give you 24tracks and you could always sync up two of them or bounce tracks if you needed more. With a DAW you don't have to mix all of the channels down individually through the board. You could submix appropriate groups and then run those through the board to save on I/O. People like DAW's because they have theoretically unlimited tracks and effects with plugins but once you get everything going you can eat up your processing power very quickly.

I think DAWs are awesome for editing but suck for tracking and mixing. That is my personal opinion and it is a subject of much debate. I think the best overall solution is to use an HDR but have a DAW and an easy way to shuttle tracks over for editing or processing if you need it. Many HDR's have digital i/o options, TCIP networking and removable discs for doing stuff like that. Make sure you research that before committing to a purchase.

My biggest problem with DAW's is that it's so easy to have some stupid little problem that causes glitches and dropouts that you can't even record a single track or do a simple rough mixdown until you track down the problem and fix it. Not to mention that from a resale standpoint you are much better off with dedicated components then a bunch of software and a soundcard that will be obsolete in a year or two when they stop providing new drivers for the latest OS.
 
I'm beginning to see that I've got a lot of research work to do before I find exactly what I'm looking for. I like the idea of using an HDR but the recording medium is not exactly cheap. I guess to get a clear picture of the difference between a replacement hard drive and a crate full of CDR's you'd have to break it down to dollars per MB. One question if anybody can tell me, are there any mixing functions available on any HDR's? Can you program in changes like mute, volume changes, etc.? I think the previous post touched on a real valid point. 2, 3 years from now when I'm ready to upgrade, I'd probably get more for a machine than a bunch of wires and a sound card. On the other hand, I'm such a pack rat I never sell anything anyway.
 
Unless its a all in one box like a digital porta studio{Yamaha,Roland ect.} think of the HDR's as "tape" machines..not much editing{relitively speaking} and no mixer features


Don
 
TexRoadkill said:

Computer DAW's are very powerfull but you will spend about a grand on sound cards just to have 8-10 tracks of okay i/o.
Click to expand...

Gina 24/96 is only around $400.

But yes, you are only limited to 8 tracks at a time. If you need to record more than 8 simultaneously you will need to either get two 8 i/o cards or get something like a MOTU, both options jumping into the $1000 plus range.

My only concern with regard to all-in-one units is that if one component breaks down, the whole unit may be inoperable, whereas if you buy a customizable pc (not the kind you get at Circuit City or Best Buy, but ones built to your own specs) you can switch out defective parts as well as upgrade to better components in the future.

Just giving you something else to keep in mind as you are making your decision.

Cy
 
The Gina can only record 2 tracks at once.(4 if you use the spdif) But it will play back 8 at a time. You have to move up to the Layla to record 8 at a time.
 
I'd think 8 simultanious tracks at one time would be enough for even recording drums unless you go nuts on the mics. I'm no expert at recording drums though. Not sure what software you'd use but I've played with Pro ToolsLE and Cubase VST, and you can do pretty much any sort of mix,realtime fx,automation, ect you can think of. If you had a card with a ton of inputs I think you could use your mixer more or less as a way to get the mic to line level and go straight to the computer skipping stuff like ADATs entirely. Heck, even simple things like not having to rewind for every take makes it worth while. For someone like me who gets red light syndrome, screws up and wants to start over a million times, this in itself is very cool....

add... Just built a machine for a friend for PTLE and a digi 001. Used an ECS KT333 Raid-0 mainboard with an Athlon XP 2000, 512 PC2700 memory, 60 GB 7200 RPM drive, (2) 30 GB 7200 rpm drives setup as a raid-0 array for the music data, and it works great. Modified the heatsink and fan go make it quiet though. Athlon XPs based systems are cheaper to build, but run hot and the average cooling fan is rather loud for recording. I make a bracket to mount an 80 MM fan on a 80x60 mm heatsink. cools good and is quiet. If you use those neon lighted fans and a plexiglass panel case, looks bitchn' too. I'd build a custom PC as RAID-0 is a cheap way to get alot of disk speed and can get expensive when you buy one with raid-0 pre-setup from the big companies.
 
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:cool: And whatever you do; take your sweet time to read the instruction manuals, and experiment before your first serious "session"


da MUTT
 
I'm getting some great ideas from all the posts. I like the idea of having a computer custom-made. I don't really want Disney's Daily Blast or AOL on my music computer. I would like to get some opinions on CPU preferences. Is the Pentium the best choice or the Athalon? Maybe there's other choices. Seems like I remember somthing about the P4 having spyware built in. That's a definate turn off.
 
There's some kind of CPU ID on a P4. I thought that the Athlon had something like that too. On all the mainboards I've seen you can disable it and it's usually disabled by default. No biggie.
The plus to the Athlon is price. Cheaper to build the same performance. The plus to the P4 is heat. They don't run as hot so you don't need as much cooling. Like I was saying if you built your own Athlon and want a quiet yet effective heatsink you can buy a 60x80 MM heatsink/fan like the Coolmaster DP5 and then you can fab a bracket to mount a normal 80 MM case fan on it. I used 1/8" copper stripping I foind at a hardware sotre. Measure out 2 sticks at 90mm and bend 5 mm at each end. Then drill a couple holes and bolt them up wehre the original fan was. Then you take a tie straps and strap the fan to those brackets you just mounted. An 80 MM case fan is usually ~30 CFM (plenty) and only turns 2500 RPM which is very quiet. The one I built for a friends studio had a plexiglass side in the case, and I used neon glow fans. One on the CPU and one for rear exhaust. Threw in a noen light too just for extra light. Looks pretty nifty and keeps it cool.
There's better Athlon boards out there like the Nforce 2 based boards but I went with a VIA KT333 based board just for compatibility with the Digi 001 hardware. If you want to do alot of editing RAID 0 is great. You can get 10,000 RPM SCSI speeds for much less.
 
OK. Suppose a computer dummy like myself decided to build my own computer. Is it as simple as finding all the best parts and plugging them together, or do I need to know a lot of high tech stuff? To date, the extent of my computer modifying has been installing a SyQuest Sparq drive, an HP CD writer, and a Sound Blaster Live! Drive. Should I attempt assembling my own computer or should I have a pro do it for me? And If I were to do it myself where do I go to get info on what is the best stuff? Maybe someone might have some suggestions for the best components.
 
re: building your own computer

I've built my last three computers and its not very difficult. I won't buy a desktop from an OEM as I can do a better job. Of course if something goes wrong you're on your own support-wise.

If you want to go Windows-based most retail motherboards come with manuals that give you point-by-point steps. Linux and BSD take more knowledge.

The biggest job is figuring out what parts to use. This can take a lot of research time - many of the people who advocate building your own PC's are computer junkies who would keep up with this info anyways.

I'll just warn you don't expect to save much money at the low end.

Good websites to read:
Anandtech.com
Tomshardware.com
forums.anandtech.com
the HTPC forum at www.avsforum.com

I'll give you some recommendations if you answer the following questions:
1. what is your budget?
2. do you other machines to canabilize
3. will this be a dedicated audio machine or will it have other tasks? if so what?
 
Originally posted by sathyan
re: building your own computer

I'll give you some recommendations if you answer the following questions:
1. what is your budget?
2. do you have other machines to canabilize
3. will this be a dedicated audio machine or will it have other tasks? if so what?

Reply:
1. I'm going to have about $3000.00 to spend on whatever I get, which may include an I/O device like Layla and/or a DAW like the Roland. I'm still looking for the best way to go.

2. My only computer is an HP Pavilion 8370. I took out the sound card and installed a SB Live Drive so the only spare parts I have are the factory SC.

3. My main concern is having a really good machine to handle recording, but I also intend to do some video editing. Other than that, just standard stuff, and minimal gaming.

Do you use your computer for recording? What prompted you initially to build your own? What is your level of expertise? The thing that attracts me about building your own is you don't have to be subjected to all the crap software that they load in. I just want a dedicated machine to do what I want it to. Who wants to have AOL offers crammed down their throat. What are the drawbacks, as you see it, to OEM machines? What do you think of Sony?
Click to expand...
 
Dword2002,

I won't have time to give you a detailed response until early next week.

Do you use your computer for recording?

Yes, 2 channel for MP3 and CDR distribution

What prompted you initially to build your own?

Previously I had an OEM-built system with extended warranty but the company went under. So I decided to build my own next time around.

What I like about DIY:
1. I get lifetime onsite support :-)
2. I get to make all the decisions
3. All components can be high quality
4. No proprietary parts
5. I don't buy anything I don't need

What is your level of expertise?

I have 8 years experience in IT (hardware/software support, server administration, programming)

The thing that attracts me about building your own is you don't have to be subjected to all the crap software that they load in. I just want a dedicated machine to do what I want it to. Who wants to have AOL offers crammed down their throat. What are the drawbacks, as you see it, to OEM machines?

In addition, OEM's build machines for the lowest price and average user. They cannot be specialized and they take shortcuts to make price points that I would not do.
So they can provide recognizable (and advertised ) Intel processors (instead of AMD which is just as good) they skimp on power supply, memory, and motherboard quality which are much more important to system stability.

What do you think of Sony?

I can't recommend Sony. There are build quality issues. Customer support is lacking. Its overpriced. And shares problems of other OEM's. Sony tends to load a lot of their own software.

Apple running with OSX (BSD) may be a good OEM option to consider


With a budget of $3k there may be turnkey DAW solutions available. My system cost only about $600 in parts 3 years ago - so OEM's were not at all comptetive (the equivalent Dell at the time was $1700)
 
A $3000 budget would get you a pretty sweet setup. Some people might disagree but the Digi 001 seems to be a nice setup for a home user. No matter what hardware/software you go with you'll be scratching your head at some point trying to figure something out. Digi was easy to get going and it's an all in one solution that you add to a machine. Here's what a friend has that we updated recently. It's a budget machine but works like a champ:

AMD XP 2000+
ECS K7VTA3 KT333 RAID capable mainboard
512 PC2700 DDR memory running default PC2100 speed
60 GB 7200 bootable hard drive for software and data backup
60 GB 7200 RAID-0 arrray for music data (2 30 GB drives)
built in audio
Digi 001 hardware with Pro Tools LE 5.3.1
Enermax 350 Watt case with nifty plexiglass panel
52x CDROM
20X burner
2 glow fans and neon light just for looks
19" monitor
Win XP Pro

Probably less than $1750? Didn't do all the math but it would be less than that for sure. Then you need a nice set of monitors. Same dude has a set of Mackie HR824 Active monitors and I thought they were really nice for the money. The HR624 might be around around $500 and might sound similar for less? Then a budget mixer to hook to the digi and monitors. I was thinking DFX 6 for myself.. Dunno... $200

Seems you could have a nice complete setup with a coupe mics for $2700 or so. Lots of ways to do something alot cheaper too....
 
Originally posted by DAFFYDRUNK
$3000 would get you a pretty sweet setup. The Digi 001 seems to be a nice setup. No matter what hardware/software you go with you'll be scratching your head at some point trying to figure something out. Digi was easy to get going and it's an all in one solution that you add to a machine. Here's what a friend has that we updated recently. It's a budget machine but works like a champ:

AMD XP 2000+
ECS K7VTA3 KT333 RAID capable mainboard
512 PC2700 DDR memory running default PC2100 speed
60 GB 7200 bootable hard drive for software and data backup
60 GB 7200 RAID-0 arrray for music data (2 30 GB drives)
built in audio
Digi 001 hardware with Pro Tools LE 5.3.1
Enermax 350 Watt case with nifty plexiglass panel
52x CDROM
20X burner
2 glow fans and neon light just for looks
19" monitor
Win XP Pro

dword replies:

OK. I'm trying to get up to speed here.

AMD XP 2000+
An AMD XP 2000+ is an Athelon processor @ <2k (a P4 runs hotter??? correct???)

ECS K7VTA3 KT333 RAID capable mainboard
I have no clue!

512 PC2700 DDR memory running default PC2100 speed
512=MB RAM? PC2700 DDR...no clue. PC2100...no clue.

60 GB 7200 bootable hard drive for software and data backup
60 GB 7200 RAID-0 arrray for music data (2 30 GB drives)
What's BOOTABLE? Is this a two or three HD setup? (hence ARRAY? 2+2 30 GB HD = 60?) What are the advantages? What is RAID-O array?

built in audio...
as in...???

Digi 001 hardware with Pro Tools LE 5.3.1
Is the Digi 001 a physical mixing board (stand alone)? What exactly does Pro Tools do?

Enermax 350 Watt case with nifty plexiglass panel.
Why is power supply so important? Is the nifty plexiglass panel xtra bucks? Is it Windex friendly?

52x CDROM, 20X burner
Self explanitory.

2 glow fans and neon light just for looks.
Well... if it will impress potential clients...

19" monitor, Win XP Pro
Hell, let's go 36". Why Win XP PRO?

Then you need a nice set of monitors. (Mackie HR824 Active monitors.)
Have you checked out the Behringer B2031 Truth Monitors? By all the reviews I've seen they stand up well.

Then a budget mixer to hook to the digi and monitors. I was thinking DFX 6 for myself.
Mixer as in analog? What's the "digi", and the "DFX 6"?
(I'm sure this will sound stupid to me later).
Thanks.
 
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