Suggestions for miking bass

J

James K

Member
Hi,
I'm currently recording a new album with my band and am trying to get the best bass sound I possibly can. I'm playing a Hofner violin bass (with flatwounds) through a Fender Blues Deluxe. I've got the bass sounding great though the amp but am having problems capturing that sound. My current technique is to put a D112 directly facing the cone about 9" away and an Oktava MK219 about 3' off the ground and 2' away from the amp pointing towards the cone. I then compress both of these signals, EQ out all the bass from the D112 and everything but the bass from the MK219 and then mix the two together. I'm fairly pleased with the sound but I know that it could be better. It's not fully capturing the sound I'm getting from the amp.

I'm going to spend a day or so just playing around with mic positions etc. but there are probably techniques that I haven't thought of. Any suggestions would be great!

I have two Oktava MK219s, an AKG D112 and an SM57.

Thanks
James
 
That seems kind of a weird and overly complex way of doing it. I obviously haven't heard the result, but it just seems weird. If it were me, I'd stay with one mic. I'd think either the D112 or 57 would be the go-to mics for a bass. I'd put the mic a little closer than 9 inches - maybe more like 1 - 4 inches. Start with the mic at the center of the cone, run some test recordings and move it gradually out towards the edge of the cone. Go with the mic position you like best.
 
What don't you like about that bass sound? I thought it sounded pretty good. Maybe a bit on the sterile side. But I didn't think there was much to criticize.
 
James K said:
I'm fairly pleased with it. I just think that maybe it could have more 'drive' or 'impact' to it.
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I think it sounds great ! Clean, punchy, free of any mud. Not sure what else you could do.

Maybe blend in real sight with what you already have a DI tone with a bit of drive on it and see what it sounds like? Maybe focus on matching the DI tone(or whatever you think you need to add to it) closer to complement the deepness of the kick drum? Something real subtle though, I don't think you need much more.

That is the only thing I could think of.

Great song by the way. Sounds like fun.
 
4 simple steps - mind you your current tone id fine if a little antiseptic.
1) Use a bass amp - they do the right thing and the speakers reproduce the tone better.
2) 1 mic 5mm from the grill and 1/2 way from the cone to the edge(or, realistically, where ever the sweet spot is)
3) split the signal from the bass with 1 going to the amp for micing & the other to a behringer BDI21 & then into the interface
4) blend the two.
 
Im not anywhere where I can listen to the clip, but it sounds like you are chasing the feel of the amp in the room instead of the tone. I'll bet the tone you are capturing is the tone of the amp, you are just missing the air movement and the chest physical chest thump of standing in the room with the amp.

This is one of the reasons why, whenever possible, I have the player in the control room and the cabinet in the other room. That way, you dial the amp in so it sounds great through the mics and you don't get caught up in what it sounds like in the room. What it sounds like in the room is irrelevant because no one is in here listening to it...everyone that ever hears that performance after its recorded will head it through the mic, so that is all that matters.
 
I've been playing around with the sound for a while now and I've managed to get a sound I'm pleased with with only one mic. I've set the amp (Blues Deluxe) up in another room as before with the bass and middle on zero and the treble about half way up. I've then mic'ed it with a single Oktava MK-219 right up against the cone between the centre and the edge. It pretty much captures what I hear straight from the amp.
 
James K said:
I've been playing around with the sound for a while now and I've managed to get a sound I'm pleased with with only one mic. I've set the amp (Blues Deluxe) up in another room as before with the bass and middle on zero and the treble about half way up. I've then mic'ed it with a single Oktava MK-219 right up against the cone between the centre and the edge. It pretty much captures what I hear straight from the amp.
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That sounds really counterintuitive, as I would think this would get you plenty of clarity but next to no low end out of the amp, for what's really a low-end focused instrument...

I can't really listen to your clip on this computer, but what I've had fairly good luck with is using a DI signal, running straight into a Sansamp RPM and capturing both the uneffected DI and the effected preamp signal, with a bit of grit, and then highpassing all but the low end off the DI, lowpassing everything from the lower mids and down out of the gritty signal, thhrowing a cab impulse on it, and compressing the living hell out of the DI. I suspect I play somewhat heavier music than you do, but the advantage of taking a DI is you get a VERY pure signal, which can probably give you a clearer low end than the amp/mic/room combination will. Combining the mic'd signal with a DI would probably help.
 
DrewPeterson7 said:
That sounds really counterintuitive, as I would think this would get you plenty of clarity but next to no low end out of the amp, for what's really a low-end focused instrument...

I can't really listen to your clip on this computer, but what I've had fairly good luck with is using a DI signal, running straight into a Sansamp RPM and capturing both the uneffected DI and the effected preamp signal, with a bit of grit, and then highpassing all but the low end off the DI, lowpassing everything from the lower mids and down out of the gritty signal, thhrowing a cab impulse on it, and compressing the living hell out of the DI. I suspect I play somewhat heavier music than you do, but the advantage of taking a DI is you get a VERY pure signal, which can probably give you a clearer low end than the amp/mic/room combination will. Combining the mic'd signal with a DI would probably help.
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It was counter-intuitive and I didn't expect it to work. I set up the bass and amp in a different room and got the sound I wanted. I then just put the condenser on it and listened through the monitors expecting to get s bit of high end that might be useful in combination with something else but there it was, almost exactly what I was hearing through the amp! With a bit of compression and EQ it's just the sound I wanted: solid, defined and almost percussive.

I'm also going to be recording another bass though for a couple of the tracks (Yamaha bass with roundwound strings) to get a heavier, more Green Day esque sound. I'm assuming that the DI route will be more appropriate there. Any suggestions on that particular sound?

Also, what's a cab impulse?

Thanks for all the replies, they've been a great help so far!
 
I'm new here but like to share my thoughts on this ;O)

I normally record hardrock and metal where the drive on the bass is very important

The setup I use are often similar to what You are explaining here, but with a slight difference:

I split the signal from the bass (one directly to the AD converter and one to the amp)

Then I mic the amp with a bassdrum mic (normaly Audix D6) direct on the cone and as close to the grill as possible (this mic is for the low freq). And I use a SM57 (or sometimes E606) placed same way as the bassdrum mic to get the high freq. and the definition of the notes. Remember to be aware of phase problems using 2 mics!

The most important thing though (IMO) is the recording environment - I allways place the amp in a (natural) reverb free environment (an isolated recording box) - this will get You a very dry and transparent sound.

Afterwards I use the clean signal through an amp simulator (often Ampeg SVX) to get the final punch and to add a little more drive to the sound.
 
James K said:
Also, what's a cab impulse?
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From the Redwirez site:

For the technical among us, an impulse response (or "IR") realistically captures the characteristics, both in frequency and time, of an entire signal chain, including the sampled speaker, the microphone, the room it's in, the power amp, preamp -- even the A/D converters. Put another way, it'll capture the unique frequency curve of the speaker, any phase smearing inherent in the mechanical operation of the speaker, any cabinet resonance, the frequency response and resonance of the mic, the sound of the room, and any frequency or phase related coloration introduced by the power amp, preamp, and converters and apply that captured sound to any audio you pass through it... or so our even geekier friends tell us.
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Red Wire Impulse Responses | High quality guitar speaker cabinet IRs for use with convolution plugins
 
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