Suggest A Mixer

[Ed Dixon]

I don't think there is any question that Mackie and other higher end mixers are probably better than Behringer units. One can always take 2 mixers, regardless of make and model, and measure differences.

The question for most is whether the difference plays a factor in their application. If they can't hear the difference, and others can't hear the difference (amps, speakers, mics, hall acoustics, etc, always enter the picture), then the advantage is mostly lost. However at double or triple the cost, lost $ can always be felt.

For many live applications, this is more likely to be the case. There are some many other factors that swamp differences in mixers. For pure recording setups, the metrics for choice are somewhat different.

I have no experience with budget Yamaha mixers. We have one at church, but I have not worked with it at all. I have bought about 5 different Behringer units, and have great success with each, so I tend to stick with a working model.

Being a Christian is something I see as an advantage here. I spend most of my playing time at church, so I can relate to that on the same scale.

Ed

 

[noisedude]

One building I use just bought a Soundcraft LX7 - now that's a confusing mixer ... and their amps + speakers can't do the thing any justice anyway. Pointless. But if I was starting a project now, wanting something something to record with and take on the road ... it would be something more like that. That's because I trust the brand, they have a good reputation (unlike Behringer) and I have way more chance of getting any problems sorted out.

 

[Confusitron]

Would anyone suggest a Tascam or Ramsa mixer?

Basically, what I want, is phantom power on all channels, three or more bands of equalization on each channel, four to eight busses...

I'm assuming all this babble means that Phonics and Behringers are out of the picture now... Oh, so cheap... They gave me hope.

Does anyone have a good diagram of how everything is connected together for recording? I do have a Proco PDF file, but I do not know if there is anything better.

 

[distortedrumble]

noisedude is a christian? nah....really? behringer is like gay muslim who supports abortion to you lol. i bought a behringer UB802 because it was cheap and just in case i messed up and shorted out stuff (various beer bottles all over the room still have pingers in them after a songwriting session). however after a few minutes of eqing, i got a sound i liked. I'm quite sure that i could get a better sound out of something thats "just a little bit more expensive", but i like the sound i have for what i have to work with. when I'm interested in putting more money into it, then i will definitely get better equipment now that i know what and what not to do. now a club where i live uses the mx2442 for live shows and recording dvds of the bands playing....the only thing the club has blown is subwoofer. bands are shelling out a hundred bucks for the dvd and some get their next show recorded also. in church they use the UB2442 and maybe its because everyone is all in the holy spirit but no one has complained there either. i guess anyone who uses behringer is not following the path of the righteous? lol

 

[MISTERQCUE]

I won't delve into my horrific experiences with Beh's mixers but instead I'll boringly repeat a story I've posted a way while back.

June 2000, the wi-fee and I attended a 3 hr jazz cruise on the "Spirit of NY" yacht in NYC where the featured performer was famed jazz git'ist, Earl Klugh and his 6-piece ensemble. Boarding time was 6PM but we arrived at 5pm to insure we got the best seats which we did! We sat front-row approx 7-8 feet from Earl and his hyped-up Martin axe. Mind you, these jazz cruises are performer/audience intimate affairs averaging approx'ly no more than 150-200
people per show/cruise situated on 3 decks; Earl & Co performing on the 2nd deck which is enclosed with the top deck allowing those who chose to sit there to enjoy the sunset and look downward at the band while those on the 1st deck, while not able to see the perf'mrs, listened in on the quad JBL monitors.
Delighted with being seated on the 2nd deck front row, I was able to check out Earl's enormous talent & techniques and seeing the gear the band was using most especially the FOH'ist. HE was using a Behringer MX9000 with meter bridge with a rack full of Lex 1's & TC's.
Earl flows forth on the 1st song... an interpretation on Ronnie Laws "Always There" where 2 mins into the song he signals FOH'ist for more gain. A min 1/2 later he sigs for mid cut. 2nd song, Earl asks gain cut while drummer sigs FOH'ist he cant hear kick. FOH'ist complies & makes adjmt....sax/git interplay with sax on a 57 and a noticeable hiss apparent. Earl sigs FOH'ist to filter hiss via a head-chopping hand movement which FOH'ist does by turning MX's chan eq counter-clockwise but also cuts 'Verb tail siginificantly from the sax's scale-climbing solo. 3rd song & 4th song Earl continuosly signals FOH'ist to adj either mic or p/u output levels in addition with an angry stare on the 4th song when ground noise was apparent. After a while, the wif-ee and her untrained audio senses noted a dissastisfaction with the overall sound level yet satisfied with being able to go beyond that and just enjoy Earl and his bands musical experience while I figgerd that the FOH'ist was an inexperienced
tweak-freak prob'ly working his 1st ever FOH gig! After the concert,taking pics with Earl and unsucessfully trying to hi-jack the bassist's Rickenbacker , I chatted with the FOH'ist to find out why there were so many sound probs and if maybe he was a newbie. Found out he was well-known and successfull FOH'ist and engineer Scott H....(I'm a lil nice and rite now can't remember his last name). He told me that he uses an SSL (I think SerJ )but was unable to use it and was forced to borrow the MX9000 from some mid-level NYC studio. I think I kinda' pissed him off when I kept inquiring why a person of his experience wasn't able to utilize the board's perf on the run regardless of it's quality. But instead of blowing me off he simply stated "Beh boards, 'specially the MX9000, are not geared for fine tuning nor for avg set levels. Due to the the board's lack of quality or the basics of even normal operation, it forces you to become a tweak-freak in order to maintain constant gain levelling and freq'y control on each performance as well as adj'ing particular passages in a song".

'Nuff said!

 

[moskus]

I actually think Behringer is good for a beginner. When all you have is Radio Shack mics, you don't need a Mackie mixer.

noisedude, it seems like you're forgetting you're in the Newbies forum. And there is always people claiming that a SoundBlaster Live! is just as good as RME or Lynx.

I had a Behringer, MX something-something. And I had a SB Live. I sold the Behringer, and smashed the Live! with a hammer and lived happily ever after. But that's just my personal experience...

 

[distortedrumble]

i dont think its so much that he forgets its a newbie forum....i think its more annoying to them that people can use equipment inferior to their own and it works for the person using and it didnt work for them. there are other reasons but most of them are known already....the truth is that it shouldnt be what you learn with. everyone needs to start somewhere and buying a mackie or yamaha right off the bat may be out of the price range. now most people would just buy a cheaper mixer and make do. but it almost seems that if it were up to people like misterqcue and noisedude, you wouldn't be able to learn anything until you could afford yamaha, mackie and lexicon. I think you should start with something and when your ready to buy pieces you know you'll keep and use more seriously, then spend the money on the other brands

 

[noisedude]

Not at all!! How many times - I use a Behringer mixer. It's my main recording mixer. But it's still a piece of crap!

And, for the last time on this thread, the Yamaha MGs are not more expensive that the Behris. If you've read CyanJaguar's piece on ALSQ (Acceptable Level of Sound Quality), I 100% buy into that. I'm not a gear snob .... but I will research, to an anal degree, to make sure my meagre spending money goes on gear worthy of my efforts to afford it.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

I just got an Allen & Heath System 8/248 24 channel, 8 buss mixer for 960 bucks. It's replacing my Mackie 16/4 (what an upgrade) for my home studio setup I'm still putting together. The preamps and EQ on this thing is very, very nice. There are TONS of A&H or Soundcraft 16/4 mixers out there for about 500 bucks.

Why people spend money on Behringer is beyond me. Noisy, bad sliders that break, twiddly knobs with no resistance that tend to shear off, lifeless sound, strident sounding eq. I've known a few people that had Behringer mixers and they were all pretty nasty.

My suggestion is to take Behringer up on their advertising copy: JUST LISTEN. Because you will do just that and at least buy a Mackie--which may be average but at least it has an okay sound and build quality. I mean, with Mackie you generally get what you pay for.

 

[distortedrumble]

part of me wants to snap back....but I'll just yawn

 

[noisedude]

Part of me wants to yawn .. but I agree totally with cloneboy