BroKen_H
Re-member
Finally fixed the horns on this. Cut in live piano instead of the midi. Fixed the guitar part (I can't play). Maybe now I can work on the vocals again. Let me know how the mix sounds.
Schwarzenyaeger
Formerly "Dog-In-Door"
The drums are putting me off here. I'd put my finger on a sim I'm hearing. The snare is distracting. Try it further down in the mix.
The vocal sounds a bit dull or lacking in presence.
The vocal sounds a bit dull or lacking in presence.
BroKen_H
Re-member
Great. Thanks for the listen! Tried a new snare because I thought the other one was lack-lustre. Guess I'll stick with tried and true.
The drum part is something I can't play. It's just a copy of what my drummer in Idaho used to play midi'd in from the keys (my midi, Steve's actual drumming). I've tried to do the song to a straight beat, but nothing sounds right to me after I heard Steve play it this way...
I just can't play the piano part to any other rhythm.
Put this up sans eq and comp. Just bare mix with mostly midi parts.
AFA a sim, the guitar is also midi run through a Combinator patch called Hellspawn of all things (waiting on the real guitar line from my bro in Spokane).
Right now, so is the bass. That and the piano are my parts.
And, yeah, that's what I meant about working on the vocals again. Just tried to push it through. No gusto...
Got a lot of replace to do, but wanted to see how the mix sounded. Still getting used to my 3 month old M3-8s.
The drum part is something I can't play. It's just a copy of what my drummer in Idaho used to play midi'd in from the keys (my midi, Steve's actual drumming). I've tried to do the song to a straight beat, but nothing sounds right to me after I heard Steve play it this way...
I just can't play the piano part to any other rhythm.Put this up sans eq and comp. Just bare mix with mostly midi parts.
AFA a sim, the guitar is also midi run through a Combinator patch called Hellspawn of all things (waiting on the real guitar line from my bro in Spokane).
Right now, so is the bass. That and the piano are my parts.
And, yeah, that's what I meant about working on the vocals again. Just tried to push it through. No gusto...
Got a lot of replace to do, but wanted to see how the mix sounded. Still getting used to my 3 month old M3-8s.
mjbphotos
Moderator
I found the intial toms (tympani-sounding) loud butnot reverberant enough.
Your vocals sound a lot like Steve Winwood on this, just need to get a good take on them.
Your vocals sound a lot like Steve Winwood on this, just need to get a good take on them.
BroKen_H
Re-member
Thanks Mike! Considering in the 80's I did the Geoff Tate/Alvin Slaughter type girlie scream vocals, I'll take a little Traffic. Not my best performance, just sat a track down to see if the mix was good. The beginning and end are both a bit loud. Only verbed the bit bass drum hit at the end. Guess I'll hit the rest for a bit. Great suggestion. Maybe I could get some real timp samples...
It's supposed to be battle drums and shofars, but I can't find good samples of 500 BC instruments...
It's supposed to be battle drums and shofars, but I can't find good samples of 500 BC instruments...
Bubba po
Tiny Stonehenge Moment
As Schwarzenjaeger mentioned, the snare hits aren't adding to this. The piano and bassline are busy enough and working well together, but the slightly random snare work is kind of stamping all over that. The tune's good; I can't help but think that it would benefit from a drop in key, though, as it's at the top of your range and the struggle to get there has resulted in a bit of pitchiness, don't you think? By far the best bit is the piano - it's nicely recorded and has that "real instrument" thing going on which shows up the virtual instruments a bit.
One casualty of the really rich and full piano sound is the tone of the vocal. It's ended up sounding a bit thin and middly by comparison, rather than warm and solid. Were you singing at quite a distance from the mic? I think you can hear quite a bit of the middly room sound. I know it's hard to record a vocal when you have to sing it loud to hit the notes - you end up with all sorts of peaks, breath pops and whatever, (which aren't on this recording) and standing further away helps to minimise that.
One casualty of the really rich and full piano sound is the tone of the vocal. It's ended up sounding a bit thin and middly by comparison, rather than warm and solid. Were you singing at quite a distance from the mic? I think you can hear quite a bit of the middly room sound. I know it's hard to record a vocal when you have to sing it loud to hit the notes - you end up with all sorts of peaks, breath pops and whatever, (which aren't on this recording) and standing further away helps to minimise that.
BroKen_H
Re-member
Thanks po. I always thought it was the hi-hat off beat that got to people in that drum line. The double taps on the snare? Cool. I can fix that. Just don't take away my 11 hat hits rhythm. 
Just got that new piano and I'm recording it straight out of the back into instrument ins. Kawai CE220. Plays nice, too. Best I've owned (and I've had Rolands and a LOT of Yamahas). Vocal was recorded in my living room in my last house with NO treatment and about a foot from the mike. OP intent was to re do the vocal track. Think I can hit those notes again (didn't used to be so hard) now that I'm practicing hard. (Used to sing an octave to two above that normally (Fates Warning/Queensryche/Metal Church/Alvin Slaughter). I used to have a lot more air when I was 100 lbs lighter and didn't have the extra weight taking away my breath...
Still, I'm just a songwriter. Not trying to be Mr. Professional Vocalist or anything. Like that could happen again...
Just got that new piano and I'm recording it straight out of the back into instrument ins. Kawai CE220. Plays nice, too. Best I've owned (and I've had Rolands and a LOT of Yamahas). Vocal was recorded in my living room in my last house with NO treatment and about a foot from the mike. OP intent was to re do the vocal track. Think I can hit those notes again (didn't used to be so hard) now that I'm practicing hard. (Used to sing an octave to two above that normally (Fates Warning/Queensryche/Metal Church/Alvin Slaughter). I used to have a lot more air when I was 100 lbs lighter and didn't have the extra weight taking away my breath...
Still, I'm just a songwriter. Not trying to be Mr. Professional Vocalist or anything. Like that could happen again...
rayc
retroreprobate
The horns sound too midi to me - the lines accentuate what the midi can't do - breathe, puff etc - the dynamics of it are too keyboardish.
The vocals are thin and distant - can you get someone more confident of their voice to sing it for you?
The drums stomp all over the track - the snare & general kit vol is too much.
Some good ideas happening.
The vocals are thin and distant - can you get someone more confident of their voice to sing it for you?
The drums stomp all over the track - the snare & general kit vol is too much.
Some good ideas happening.
BroKen_H
Re-member
Fixed what I could of the suggestions and tried to play the guitar part (R). Still have the midi panned (L). Got what I think is a better vocal track, but even though it sounded good when I sang it, I could tell I have a cold when I listened. Well, may have to do THAT again.
Anyway, see what you think. Make me cry, I don't mind.
Anyway, see what you think. Make me cry, I don't mind.
BroKen_H
Re-member
Why does the link look like a blocked over compressed file and the actual on Soundcloud looks like:
jimistone
long standing member
I'm clicking on the link and getting a message "sorry, cannot find this file" from soundcloud.
I've never got that message before.
I've never got that message before.
jimistone
long standing member
I like the tune...I got the link to work, it must have been a bad signal.
I think it is a complicated arrangement and the performance is tight and nicely executed. Very good arrangement. As far as the mix:
The vocals are not muddy but lack clarity...they just don't have that sheen to them and sound kind of mediocre. The drums are buried in the mix and should come up more...they also are not muddy but sound muffled. I defiantly agree with Ray on thr synth horns. They sound very synth and in my opinion detract from the tune because it causes ones mind to focus on the fake horns instead of the tune. I think ditching the synth horns in favor of a synth sound ...maybe like Styx had on "grand illusion" would compliment the tune better than the synth horns do.
I hope I'm not coming off as over critical because I like the tune and I love the arangement and I think it would be very good if you get the tones and mix up to the level of the arrangement and performance
I think it is a complicated arrangement and the performance is tight and nicely executed. Very good arrangement. As far as the mix:
The vocals are not muddy but lack clarity...they just don't have that sheen to them and sound kind of mediocre. The drums are buried in the mix and should come up more...they also are not muddy but sound muffled. I defiantly agree with Ray on thr synth horns. They sound very synth and in my opinion detract from the tune because it causes ones mind to focus on the fake horns instead of the tune. I think ditching the synth horns in favor of a synth sound ...maybe like Styx had on "grand illusion" would compliment the tune better than the synth horns do.
I hope I'm not coming off as over critical because I like the tune and I love the arangement and I think it would be very good if you get the tones and mix up to the level of the arrangement and performance
BroKen_H
Re-member
Amazingly helpful. I thought I'd gone too far with pulling back on the drums, but I'd been listening for 4 hours and tweaking and whatever. I'm really desperate to get the intro/outro working. Trying to get the horns sounding right. They're better, but not there yet. What I really NEED is a shofar soundfont. Think I just found one...
mjbphotos
Moderator
Why does the link look like a blocked over compressed file and the actual on Soundcloud looks like:
View attachment 90387
That I don't know! yeah, can tell your head was stuffed up when singing. Lacking air, you could probably EQ some in. When the guitar lead is playing - around 2:00, are there 2 lead tracks, they are competing with each other somewhat? The piano almost disappears at this point, maybe panning further to one side would help, seems like the synth, piano and guitar parts are working against each other at times.
I have to agree that the horns don't sound too great, I'd rather hear synth + guitars playing the crescendos instead.
Last edited:
BroKen_H
Re-member
Well, I'm going to try to get this shofar working tomorrow, If that doesn't wok, it's off to synth brass and guitar parts, I guess. Try the vocals again next week.
Hopefully by then I'll get the drums better sorted.
Hopefully by then I'll get the drums better sorted.
dobro
Well-known member
Fixed what I could of the suggestions and tried to play the guitar part (R). Still have the midi panned (L). Got what I think is a better vocal track, but even though it sounded good when I sang it, I could tell I have a cold when I listened. Well, may have to do THAT again.
Anyway, see what you think. Make me cry, I don't mind.
The intro's unpleasant - the horn sounds are hyped in the upper mids. What'd you do? Boost 3K? Okay, you've figured out how to avoid mud in the lows and low mids, but what about avoiding pain in the upper mids? There's this thing about mixes that overdo the upper register - it's like they're constantly getting at you. It makes you want to turn it off. If you love your listeners, you don't want them to do that.
BroKen_H
Re-member
Thanks Dobro. I'm glad the mud is clearing. I still think there's a little more I can do there. Gonna completely replace the intro/outro, so the blaring horns won't be a problem. Been fighting that battle to long. Wanted battle horns and drums in and out, but I'll either get the shofar to work today or start rewrite with guitar and synth.
It sounds a lot better than 3 months ago, thanks to all the creative and critical input. Appreciate all that you guys do!
It sounds a lot better than 3 months ago, thanks to all the creative and critical input. Appreciate all that you guys do!
BroKen_H
Re-member
Okay, just for reference,
A) Thumbs up, Keep the shofars
B) Thumbs down, Man that really has no place in the song
C) Needs work to sound good, give it another listen
Pushed the drums back up about 1dB. Still not over my cold. Pulled the horns back so they don't fight so much, just fill.
A) Thumbs up, Keep the shofars
B) Thumbs down, Man that really has no place in the song
C) Needs work to sound good, give it another listen
Pushed the drums back up about 1dB. Still not over my cold. Pulled the horns back so they don't fight so much, just fill.
Robertt8
Well-known member
Listening now. kind of cool classic rocky vibe. Here's what i'm noticing on the fly...
1. horns sound a little synthy (not always a bad thing)
2 . drums sound a little pushed back and drum machine-y. I'd give them a little more up front push.
3. vocals also sound pushed back. I'd want to hear those more up front
4. cool little guitar solo thingy.
5. cool arrangement.
Over all pretty cool tune. I feel like maybe a little mastering could help, but I like it.
1. horns sound a little synthy (not always a bad thing)
2 . drums sound a little pushed back and drum machine-y. I'd give them a little more up front push.
3. vocals also sound pushed back. I'd want to hear those more up front
4. cool little guitar solo thingy.
5. cool arrangement.
Over all pretty cool tune. I feel like maybe a little mastering could help, but I like it.
BroKen_H
Re-member
Thanks for the listen!
1. Considering replacing the horns with some synth sound. I finally got the shofar I've been looking for, and am waiting for some feedback thereon.
2. Original or with shofar? Worked them forward a bit on the shofar version.
3. Just waiting to get over my cold to work on the vocal again.
4. Wish I could play it!
5. Thank you very much
If I get the mixes right on my five song, off they go to the masterer (is that a word) to make the Holding On To Jesus EP.
1. Considering replacing the horns with some synth sound. I finally got the shofar I've been looking for, and am waiting for some feedback thereon.
2. Original or with shofar? Worked them forward a bit on the shofar version.
3. Just waiting to get over my cold to work on the vocal again.
4. Wish I could play it!
5. Thank you very much
If I get the mixes right on my five song, off they go to the masterer (is that a word) to make the Holding On To Jesus EP.