Subgroups??

HackersDna

New member
Ok Being that i am new at this game and trying to learn too much too fast im finding that i always going back to the basics. I have the 24 channel eurodesk and my question is that on each channel i have two buttons for assigning subgroups Button One being subs 1/2 [ pushed out for 1 and in for 2] and Button Two being subs 3/4 with 4 individual fadders, Sub 1-2-3-4. Now it seems that if i had drums-guitars-vocals-bass running thru their appropriate channels and assigned to a subgroup {example guitars and vocals on 1 and 2} i couldnt pull one away with out the other and thats no good.... What am i missing?
Thank you. HackersDna.......
 
HackersDna said:
i couldnt pull one away with out the other and thats no good.... What am i missing?
Thank you. HackersDna.......

That's kinda the whole idea behind subgroups. You assign multiple channels to a group or groups so that you only have to adjust 1 or 2 subgroup channels instead of 8 or 12 or however many channel faders. For example, you'd have 6 channels of drum mics going to subs 1 & 2 so that you can control your drum tracks with only 2 faders. If you want more snare, then you adjust the snare track at the channel fader instead of the sub group fader. For mixing down to 2 channels, all channels that don't go to a subgroup should go to the L-R bus. All subs should also go to the L-R.
 
I think the key here is you may have a slight misunderstanding of how sub-groups work. While I've never looked closely at your particular mixer, if it is like virtually every other mixer in the world, your description of the subgroup assign buttons is faulty. Pushing a button (1-2 or 3-4) sends that fader to the PAIR of subgroups, either 1-2, or 3-4. (If the button is up, there is no send to a subgroup). The way to control how much of the signal is going to the individual subgroup is by PANNING. Panning hard left will send the signal ONLY to subgroups 1 or 3, (or both, if you depress both assign buttons; or neither if no buttons are depressed) Panning hard right sends that channel to either 2 or 4 (or both or neither). Intermediate panning positions will change the proportion of the signal going to the even and odd subgroups - straight up panning sends an equal amount to both.

So what is the use of a subgroup? Let's say you have a drum kit mic'ed with eight microphones. You bring each mic into it's own mixer channel, and using the eight faders and the eight panpots you mix the drum kit so that it sounds really good. But say there is a section of the song where you need to lower or raise the drum kit globally. It is hard to move eight faders simultaneously, especially if you want to keep the levels of the faders at the same proportion to eachother. Solution? Turn off the L-R assignment on each of the drum channels. (Now you should hear nothing). Now depress the Sub 1-2 assign buttons on each of those channels, and raise the volume faders on Sub 1 and 2. Make sure Sub 1&2 are assigned to L&R. Now you should hear your drum kit, mixed and panned just like the original. The difference is you can raise and lower the volume by moving just the two subgroup faders instead of the eight channel faders!

Hint: if you are using a dedicated reverb on the drum kit, you may want to assign the reverb returns to the same subgroup, so that the reverb fades up and down proportionally with the dry drum volume.

Other common subgroup applications: multiple tracks of background vocals, horn sections, and lead vocals comped together from multiple tracks.

Another advantage of using a subgroup is for processing. Most decent mixers have insert points on the subgroups. This allows you to use one outboard compressor to compress a whole group of tracks, by routing them to a subgroup (or subgroup pair) and compressing them as a group.

Remember, most of the time when you are using a subgroup, make sure the individual channels are NOT assigned to the main L&R mix, and make sure the subgroups are.
 
Good explanation, LD.

I also found that you can make use of the sub assigns to independantly control a second set of speakers.

By assigning ALL the tracks to both the Mains and to a Sub, and running a set of speakers off the sub outs, you can use the Main Faders to control the volume of one pair of speakers (e.g., your control room speakers), while using the sub faders to control a second (e.g., speakers in your recording room). In this case, you wouldn't assign the subs to the mains, of course.

I was forced to do this when my Mackie's "control room out" jack crapped out on me.
 
I also found that you can make use of the sub assigns to independantly control a second set of speakers.

Again a lovely example of homerecording. I bet a real pro would stop a studiosession if the controlroom out of his SSL died during mixing. He would probably be convinced it should be repared before he cab go further.
 
Thanks to all of you very much for the replies, Makes perfect since on why you would assign an instrument to a subgroup "Group being the key word, lol".
Hacker......
 
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