Subfloor advice...

  • Thread starter Thread starter gbondo9
  • Start date Start date
gbondo9

gbondo9

p3n
I posted some threads a while ago about my sloped basement floor. I've taken care of that, and now I have a level floor to work with.

My (future) Studio Room has concrete slab floors (on top of compacted earth) and Cinderblock Walls. I plan on building a room within a room.

So.....I have some questions about subfloors:

1. For my subfloors - should I use 3/4" plywood? ....and then build my wall frames on top of that.

2. Or should I build the walls first (attaching the wall frame to the concrete) and then add the floor inside the walls?

3. Should I be adding more layers of something on top of, or beneath the subfloor?

4. What's the best way to attach a subfloor to the concrete? Glue? Nails, Both?

Thanks,
Todd
 
1. You wanna build a floating floor the attach the walls to that, i believe.

3. Nope, should be fine. Wait for another reply though, I'm not entirely sure.

4. Who knows. I think the weight should just hold it in place... maybe not...
 
1. You wanna build a floating floor the attach the walls to that, i believe.

Thanks for the reply!

From reading Rod's book, and from various posts over at John Sayers - I figured that I coul get away without doing a full on floating floor.

I'm under the impression that the a basement slab on top of compacted earth should provide sufficient damping for my purposes.

Hopefully this is correct - cause I'm on a (very) tight budget as it is.....
 
Check your local code or construction authority.

Soil expansion and humidity if not properly considered could ruin the effort you put into this project. I'm no expert...but something strikes me that if the basement was considerably out of level when you took this project on,some settling did occur at some point after the original concrete pour. Are you sure it's stopped settling? You leveled it out but will it sink some more? A suspended solution seems to be in order but with that, you create a stale air/moisture opportunity, especially with fresh concrete.

I'm a glass half empty guy because of the smack downs I've earned through out my life time. So, I'm just offering some things to consider.
 
A suspended solution seems to be in order but with that, you create a stale air/moisture opportunity, especially with fresh concrete.

I'm a glass half empty guy because of the smack downs I've earned through out my life time. So, I'm just offering some things to consider.
Thank you for the reply!
For what it's worth - here some info about my space: My house is the top of a hill (thus the slope). It was built in the 1950's.

The "studio" is a room at the back of the basement. Only about 25% of my basement (towards the front) is actually underground. The room adjacent to the "studio" just walks right out into the back yard.

I've never had any problem with water, flooding or settling in my basement (that I know of).

I had a question about your moisture statement above:
Should I put a vapor barrier down over the concrete before I lay the subfloor?
 
Does anyone have any subfloor over concrete experience that they could share?
 
My (future) Studio Room has concrete slab floors (on top of compacted earth) and Cinderblock Walls. I plan on building a room within a room.
Hello gbondo9. Forget the subfloor(?) question for the moment. It is of no concern at this point. From what I understand about your situation, I think you need to realize some things. First, let me ask you if this is correct.

The ORIGINAL unlevel slab in the basement. Was this poured as an inherent part of the foundation footings or was it poured after, between the footings? Do you know how THICK this slab is?

This is where a planned "room in a room" scenario need analysis.

1. Why do you think you need it?
2. To correctly build a "floating room in a room structure" requires "decoupling" the existing slab at the boundarys of the proposed room. This can be done in a few ways. However, ALL of them require the supporting membrane to structurally support the ENTIRE WEIGHT of the room. Not an easy task. Should you build without addressing this issue from the beginning, you run a risk of cracking the existing floor, which may or may not allow moisture in, but it also may void any homeowner insurance should you NOT apply for a building permit. Room in room scenarios present MANY MANY problems, which from the inspection perspective, may set up potential safety concerns, if not downright disaster should something happen, like a fire.

But getting back to the floor, this is where PLANNING is of utmost importance. And in order to set up a decision hiarchy, we need to know tons of stuff. Personally, I wouldn't begin to suggest solutions till I see a plan with accurate dimensions, showing existing walls, doors, ceiling heights, and a section through the room showing the construction of the floor above, etc.
Reason is, decisions regarding the "room in a room" NEW ceiling, requires knowledge of how you are going to support this new ceiling. This decision alone will have a bearing on the NEW floor/footing support conditions. For instance, should you decide to use the new walls to support a ceiling structure, now the floor has to support this additional weight. Should you decide to "hang" the new ceiling structure from the floor above, the existing floor structure MUST be able to support this weight.

gbondo9, building a TRUE FLOATING ROOM IN A ROOM, is a lesson in reality checks if not a lesson in physics. Not only are you facing structural issues, but legal issues, HVAC issues, THRESHOLD issues(raised floors cause entry/egress issues should you build without addressing this from the beginning), decoupled wall sway issues, and most of all...FIRE BLOCKING ISSUES. Not to mention various THREE and FOUR LEAF transmission issues without a thourough understanding of existing construction.

This is not to say it can't be done, but flying by the seat of your pants with NO COMPLETE PLAN, is asking for trouble in my view.

And if you don't think so, maybe you should read this in its ENTIREITY.

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2921&start=0&sid=2870e07c90f0aad0da18e9bc1b1e820d
BTW, I saw your post at John Sayers, and I am supprised no one there has replied.

Lastly, should you simply lay a subfloor and build a "room within a room" directly on this floor, personally, I believe you are wasting your time. There are many other options for isolating this room to a degree, without building a room with in a room, if you even need it. That is the question.
fitZ
 
From reading Rod's book, and from various posts over at John Sayers - I figured that I coul get away without doing a full on floating floor.
I just picked up on this. If you read the book, then you have a resource much more concise than any posts here could possibly give you. However, I believe you must have MISSED something. Yes, you don't have to build a "full on" floating floor. But TWO things come to mind regardless. One, it STILL has to support the wieght, which brings to mind PERMITS. Two, it STILL has to be decoupled from the existing slab, either by cutting the supporting slab(which now means a NEW footing to support the wieght, pouring a new slab on DECOUPLERS(which has an "engineered" edge for supporting the wieght of the room), or building a raised wood membrane floor, which STILL may crack the existing slab. I know from experience. And then.... pools of water formed UNDER the raised floor.:mad:!!!!!
Hence, these warnings.
fitZ:)
 
Thanks Rick! I appreciate you taking the time to answer in such detail. :)

I've got all the measurements and what not - and am currently working on a sketchup drawing of the whole project idea. I think you've convinced me to post it all (probably in another thread over at sayers) before I take any further steps. I need to clarify (in a mission statement of sorts) what my intentions are, and my budget as well.

The whole room is 8x14 (with 8 ft ceilings), and I don't have any building permits currently.

Ive read Rod's book - and I go back to it constantly - and Ill be honest - it's sent me to the web hundreds of times trying to grasp the concepts and I still need to re-read again it from cover to cover. The more I learn - the more I realize I need to learn.

I couldn't find anything in it about subfloor though, but maybe I just missed it - or maybe it's irrelevant.

Todd
 
Thanks Rick! I appreciate you taking the time to answer in such detail.
No prob Todd. I haven't posted here much because I'm working on my own studio presently. But I DO intend to post a whole shitload of pics pretty quick.

As to the subfloor. Well, just put that aside for the moment. The answer will appear when all the other questions have solutions. That is just icing on the cake. Thats not to say it isn't important. Just not at the moment.:)
fitZ
 
No prob Todd. I haven't posted here much because I'm working on my own studio presently. But I DO intend to post a whole shitload of pics pretty quick.

As to the subfloor. Well, just put that aside for the moment. The answer will appear when all the other questions have solutions. That is just icing on the cake. Thats not to say it isn't important. Just not at the moment.:)
fitZ
Can't wait Rick. Been wondering where you've been! Glad you're getting on with the studio :D
 
Been wondering where you've been!
Hi pandamonk! Well, when I say "working on the studio", there are tons of details that this implies. The last time I posted here, I was just getting ready to mod my console for the M3700. Its done. But I'll post a thread on that soon. But just to give you a hint at what I'm talking about, here is a pic of the mod hinge brackets. Took two stinking months to design, and weld these up.:rolleyes: Talk about DIY? Let me tell you.:eek::rolleyes::D
http://stingrayproductions.net/consolemodbrackets.zip


ps. I'm not sure that link works. Let me know.
 
Hi pandamonk! Well, when I say "working on the studio", there are tons of details that this implies. The last time I posted here, I was just getting ready to mod my console for the M3700. Its done. But I'll post a thread on that soon. But just to give you a hint at what I'm talking about, here is a pic of the mod hinge brackets. Took two stinking months to design, and weld these up.:rolleyes: Talk about DIY? Let me tell you.:eek::rolleyes::D
http://stingrayproductions.net/consolemodbrackets.zip


ps. I'm not sure that link works. Let me know.
The link works fine. very nice :D
 
Why are the walls angled like that? If angled at all, they should be towards the back of the room...
 
Why are the walls angled like that? If angled at all, they should be towards the back of the room...

I assume you're referring to the smartdraw sketch?

I didn't realize it mattered which directions the walls were angled toward - but I guess it makes sense. Could you explain the thinking behind this a little more just to make sure I understand.

Easy enough to change in the drawing - Ill have something new up shortly...:)
 
I assume you're referring to the smartdraw sketch?

I didn't realize it mattered which directions the walls were angled toward - but I guess it makes sense. Could you explain the thinking behind this a little more just to make sure I understand.

Easy enough to change in the drawing - Ill have something new up shortly...:)
You want the angles towards the back of the room, where the sound will be absorbed(with broadband traps on the back wall)/diffused. If the angles are towards the mixing position, then unwanted reflections will be sent in your direction, screwing up what you hear.
 
You want the angles towards the back of the room, where the sound will be absorbed(with broadband traps on the back wall)/diffused. If the angles are towards the mixing position, then unwanted reflections will be sent in your direction, screwing up what you hear.

Cool - thanks!
 
Back
Top