Sub Vs. Monitors with larger drivers

[Nate74]

Hi All,

I've been noticing that in my current mixing environtment, I'm not hearing the lower frequencies well at all. Anything below 70Hz or so I'm guessing. After mixing and burning a CD, I'm always surprised at how boomy my kick and bass guitar tracks seem. When I roll off the 80Hz range on my board, it improves, but it's a guessing game since I can't hear much difference on my monitors.

I'm mixing now through an older pair of Yorkville YSM1's with 6.5" drivers. So my question: what are the pros and cons of adding a sub vs. buying some monitors with 8" drivers? Anything else to condiser?

Thanks!!!

 

[xstatic]

The 8" driver is not going to give you a whole lot of lower frequencies compared to your current monitors. I suggest you listen closely to some other music so that you can really learn your monitors and room a little better. A sub can be useful, but at the same time it can have just as big of a negative impact on your mixes if it isn't all set right. It's a tough call

 

[Nate74]

I suggest you listen closely to some other music so that you can really learn your monitors and room a little better.

...makes sense and thanks. I think I'm going to hook a CD player up to my monitors and take a listen to a few of my favorites as you suggest.

 

[Bulls Hit]

Have you tried different listening positions in your studio?

Do you use bass traps? You could be sitting in a hole where the low frequencies are interfering with each other causing cancellation

 

[Nate74]

No bass traps currently. The room also serves as my wife's home office and I can only encroach so much... I have noticed that if I sit back away from my board 3 or 4 feet, the overall mix does change a bit. I'll pay more attention next time. Thanks for the thoughts.

What's the idea of a bass trap?

 

[mshilarious]

What's the idea of a bass trap?

It breaks up standing waves at bass frequencies. Basically, reflections of bass frequencies are interfering and reinforcing each other, which causes the phenomenon you note of the mix changing as you move around the room, so I'd say you need some treatment.

That said, I just added a 10" sub to a 6" pair, and the sound is awesome. I did design the sub myself to complement my monitors well, and I still have to do some detailed testing to get the level right, but the 6"s simply don't have much below 100 Hz, even in a properly treated room.

 

[Nate74]

Would these same reflections/interferences happen at low volumes? I know room dynamics are greatly minimized by checking balance at lower volumes but I was wondering about this other phenomenon?

 

[mshilarious]

Would these same reflections/interferences happen at low volumes? I know room dynamics are greatly minimized by checking balance at lower volumes but I was wondering about this other phenomenon?

No, but your perception of bass frequencies might change. Or the distance from the monitors to your head might change, which is why the room sound would be diminished.

I don't think that's the solution though, because you need to mix at sufficient volume, and the very same bass problem will occur during tracking, if you use this room for that.

 

[Nate74]

Good point.

Do any of these "audio test" type CDs work or help at all? I see ads for them all over the place. Not even sure how they're supposed to work. I imagine they have a number of different pitch tones and various volumes?

 

[dachay2tnr]

FWIW, I have 8" monitors and have the same problem (although I would place my guesswork at 50Hz and below).

I know the purists will probably cringe, but I find a roll-off at below 40Hz solves the problem for me. As a result I have taken to doing this as a matter of course for all my mixes. I personally haven't found any negative results from this, but I do not do what I would consider bass driven music.

 

[mshilarious]

FWIW, I have 8" monitors and have the same problem (although I would place my guesswork at 50Hz and below).

That's probably about right. One thing to consider is that you only get below 50Hz with the lowest notes of the bass (especially a five string), synth, or a really big kick drum.

 

[Nate74]

Reviewing some other threads on studio design, I'm realizing also that having my monitors right up against one of the walls may not be the best setup either...

A new house may be needed

 

[deepwater]

I found that adding a sub can help clean up your monitors. The more that little 8" drive has to work to produce those low freq the more detail you loss in the mids. Thats why a 3 way sytems tends to have more detail and sound clearer. The more focused you can make your speaker the better.

 

[xstatic]

What Deepwater says is partially true. However, there is nothing that says that 3 way systems have more detail and sound clearer. In general, many people view this the opposite. The more crossovers that are added to a speaker system, the more over/under lap of frequncies, and the more phasing. The most importatn thing you can do is learn your monitors, and don't listen TOO loud to them. If you stay within an appropriate volume range with a decent amplifier, a 2 way monitor with a 6 1/2 " and tweeter can be very affective. Of course a sub can really help in that low range, but it's a whole lot easier to harm the overall translation of a system by adding a sub in the wrong place and/ or not tuned right than it is to integrate one properly. If you have decent monitors, your 8" speaker will do what you need it to without much stress. Cheapies tend to fall apart or get way out of whack at the low and hi extreme of their ranges. I am not saying that you shouldn't get a sub, but just don't be under the impression that you will be able to buy one, drop it in and everything will magically be fixed. Adding a sub may solve one problem but create another that may be just as bad for you. I would experiment with moving your monitors around a bit forst and dampening the wall behind them. See if you can't get them at least one foot, but even better two feet from the back wall. Then try to space them about 5 or 6 feet apart and get yourself a good 5 or 6 feet from them. Also, try standing them up and turning them on their sides. Try them with the tweeters to the outside, and the tweeters to the inside. Take notes when you do all this so that you can see what the differences are. When you are done, combine all those notes and you may have made some improvements. If not, then look into a sub, but I would reccomend not getting anything bigger than a 10" and kepping it low enough in volume that it kind of dissappears into the main speaker sound. If it stands out, it's probably too loud.