Studio subs

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stray411

stray411

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I'm looking for some suggestions on a good subwoofer to use along with my Event PS-6s. The PS-6s just aren't giving me an accurate picture of the low end. The only studio subs I've been able to look at are the Mackie model (way too expensive at this point) and the Yamaha models that come in the bundles (not too impressive). I've talked to other producers who use home theater type subs but I'm a little leery of this.

What I'm wondering is: a. Are there any other studio subs (in a reasonable price range) that anyone could recommend? b. Would a sub made for live PA be usable in a studio environment? c. Would you recommend using a home theater type sub?

Also how do you adjust the level of the sub to the level of the monitors? Is this more of a personal taste issue or is there a specific way to do it?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Stray
 
Stray,

> The PS-6s just aren't giving me an accurate picture of the low end. <

According to the specs, the PS-6 is good down to 45 Hz., which is pretty low. The real issue is probably standing waves causing peaks and dips in your room's response. Solve that and you won't need a subwoofer!

--Ethan
 
Ethan,

I appreciate your comments here and I believe you are probably right. I treated my room somewhat but definitely not adequately enough I know. My studio is in a converted high school right now and is just a temporary location for me so I didn't want to spend too much money or time on treating it. I guess I should have stated that in my question.

I just got the PS-6s not too long ago. Prior to mixing with those I was using a pair of RCA cubes and Sony towers. I feel this previous arrangement gave me a more accurate picture of the low frequencies. Basically with those speakers my mixes translated well in reference to low frequencies.

Now I have spent extensive time listening to the PS6s in my room with familiar material and I feel pretty confident that I know them pretty well. Even with commerically recorded material these monitors do not seem to produce low frequencies properly. They seem pretty reliable down to about 100 Hz or so but anything below that doesn't seem to be represented properly.

Do you think this has anything to do with the dual front firing ports on these monitors?

Thanks Blue Bear as well, I'll check out the Tannoy although I have a feeling I'm going to find that it's pretty expensive.

PS. If you want to hear what I'm talking about check out the song titled "All Love" on the link below. I find the low end on this mix to be very muddy below about 100 Hz but sounds beautiful on the PS6s.

Stray
www.mp3.com/PerpetualProductio
 
Hey Ethan, old buddy!

Where've you been the last couple of months?
 
I have the ps6 an a tannoy sub also they work just fine together
 
Stray,

> Even with commerically recorded material these monitors do not seem to produce low frequencies properly. <

I don't have those speakers so I can't say for sure how flat they are at the low end. As you may know, specs can be finagled in lots of ways. But if commercial CDs sound bass-shy too, that supports my theory that the real problem is probably your room.

--Ethan
 
LD,

> Where've you been the last couple of months? <

Very busy starting a new business:

www.realtraps.com

The first ads will be in the November issue of EQ magazine, and then in December we'll be in Mix and Electronic Musician too.

--Ethan
 
Ethan Winer said:
LD,

Very busy starting a new business:

www.realtraps.com
Click to expand...

Ethan:

This is GREAT news! Very exciting - congratulations. I have a feeling you and i could do some business soon. A portable trap system that i could move from the drum room (while tracking) into the control room (while mixing) would be fantastic! And you're not so far a way that I might even be able to drive down and pick up the units if shipping turns out to be a major expense.

Are you actually up and running and in production yet?
 
LD,

> This is GREAT news! Very exciting - congratulations. <

Thanks. Yes it is exciting. I'm pleased to see a growing interest in room treatment over the past few years, as people realize that money spent on bass traps is more important than getting the latest boutique mike pre or tube EQ. :)

> I might even be able to drive down and pick up the units if shipping turns out to be a major expense. <

Yeah, shipping is pretty expensive. If you have a van or can borrow a truck, that will save you a few hundred dollars. You're also welcome to come by some afternoon to see the traps in person if you'd like. I have several in my studio and my partner, who lives an hour closer to you, has his entire control room outfitted with RealTraps.

> Are you actually up and running and in production yet? <

Yep.

--Ethan
 
Cool. When things around here let up a little (hopefully in November) I'll try and set something up with you.
 
I need some bass

I have NHTPro M-00's and I need to compliment them with some bass monitors. I'm thinking of getting Tannoy ps110b's but I'm wondering if this is the right choice to fill in the upper bass section. I'm posting the specs hoping that someone can help me with them.

NHTPro M-00:
Amplifier Power
75W (continuous rms/ch), 150W (100ms peak).
Peak Acoustic Output
111dB SPL (100ms pink noise @ 1M).
Residual Hum/Noise
< 20dB SPL (A-weighted @ 1M).
THD @ 90dB SPL
< 1.0% (100Hz - 10KHz @ 1M).
Response ± 2dB (1/3 oct. swept noise)
98Hz - 20KHz @ 1M, 93Hz - 20KHz @ 2M.
-6dB LF Cutoff
80Hz (in-room response).

Tannoy ps110b:
Frequency Response +/- 3 dB 31Hz - 150Hz (-10dB @ 21 Hz)
Inputs L / R XLR fully balanced inpts, 10 k ohm, 2-channel
Peak SPL (half space) 108 dB
Power Rating 110 W rms

TIA
 
What exactly do you mean by "upper bass"???

A sub operates on the low end of the spectrum..... it doesn't do "upper bass" because presumably your monitors will handle that portion of the audio spectrum correctly.... it's the more extreme low-end that many small monitors fail to reproduce properly....
 
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The NHT's have a pretty high frequency response. By upper bass, I mean the higher spectrum of the bass that I hear is currently missing. The NHT's are fairly small speakers.
 
earthcub said:
The NHT's have a pretty high frequency response.
Click to expand...
On what do you base that asssumption?? And the implied presumption that high-frequency response negates having enough low-end?

What I'm getting at is to be sure you actually have a sonic deficieny problem and have defined it, BEFORE you start to trying to solve it....!

The truth is, if you have a room problem that is not letting hear bass properly, then adding a sub will not help, it will only make things muddier....
 
There is no doubt that I have a poor listening environment. I live in an apartment and can't really modify my space. The thing I'm trying to accomplish is getting the sound as best as possible while sitting very close to the speakers and not having to use headphones to listen to a final mix.

That said, I'm getting much more bass over my headphones than my current monitors. I believe it should be the other way around. The only thing I have to go by are my ears, and the monitors don't sound like they're providing enough bass. I don't listen to my music at very high volume levels because of my living arrangement unless its the weekend in the middle of the day where I turn things up a little bit, and still, I'm just not hearing the bass.

The only basis I have for judgement of the frequency response are the specs of the speakers that I posted. I'm not good at reading these things and I was hoping someone could help me make some sense of them, especially since the two companies rate things a little differently.

Alot of my music is midi based. All of the bass sounds come from synthesizers or software samplers and I want to push the lower frequencies in my music.

When I declared "higher bass", what I meant was in the 45hz-60hz as opposed to 20hz-40hz. I was differentiating between sub bass frequencies bass frequencies. I wasn't implying that my monitors don't have bass.

Blue Bear Sound: I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post. I hope that I've been able to clarify and not confuse things. I'm not so good at this stuff and I'm really green at trying to set up a studio.

thnx
 
OK... here's the thing...

It's very normal to have more bass response in your headphones than your monitors.... you've got enclosed speakers less than an inch away from your ears! Damn right you'll hear bass!!! ;)

And no, your assumption that it shold be the other way around is incorrect -- ESPECIALLY whne listening to monitors at low volumes.... that's the basis of Fletcher-Munson curves - the ear's response varies at different volumes and proximities to sound sources....

The idea is to learn how to trranslate mixes using your monitors --- first of, try listening at around 80-85db (about where the ear's response is most neutral to most frequencies), then listen to commercial Cds of material similar to yours and note the relative levels of bass, midrange, and high-end. Then tyto approximate your own mixes to those levels....

If you put in a sub to helpl you hear more bass, you risk the danger of skewing your relative bass levels and mixing the bass too softly. When you playback your mixes elsewhere, they may be bass-shy since you've overcompensated for the fact that you heard too much bass at mixdown in your monitoring environment...

Ged'dit?!?!? ;)
 
I've listened to a number of CDs, all of which sound either bass deficient, or treble accentuated, whichever way you want to look at it.

I turned up the volume pretty loud today to see if the frequencies I was complaing about were present and they're there, albeit overshadowed by the amount of treble I had to endure to get there.

I'm not sure where to go from here... maybe just mix something down and burn it so I can listen to it somewhere else and see how it sounds.

If I am lacking bass, do you still recommend not getting a sub monitor and trying to push the bass in the mix? I feel at a loss here.
 
As I said, I recommend you learn your monitors... try and tailor the response the way you hear commercial CDs being played back....

If commercial CDs are bass-shy on your system, you know you have to mix so that there is less bass in the monitors than you'd normally hear (because you don't want to overcompensate for an obvious deficiency in the room or your listening position)....

That's what "leaarning to translate mixes" means....

You don't buy a sub to act as a bass boost, you use a sub to extend the low-frequency response of your monitoring system.... otherwise, we'd all be mixing in boom-vans!!!
 
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