Studio Reputations,etc.

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DavidK

DavidK

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Are there any studios in the Cleveland/NE Ohio area with good national reputations? I know it is a judgement call as to what that means. I guess I am looking for word of mouth kinda stuff. I have checked out a few websites and there are a few that have some pretty top end gear, but the demos on the site sound less than impressive. Anyone have any knowledge?

ALSO:

How common is it to record in a concert hall for pop/rock recordings? I know of one with good acoustics, would it be practical to record orchestra parts in a hall and then the rest in a traditional studio? The hall is kinda live, I worry that if it is too reverberant it might not mesh with the rock and vocal stuff. Any ideas?

One more:

When renting a studio, can you kick out their engineers and bring your own?? I dont really mean kick out, but if I found an engineer with considerable expertise in the orchestral field, would it be common to just use him and not the house engineers?
 
DavidK said:
When renting a studio, can you kick out their engineers and bring your own?? I dont really mean kick out, but if I found an engineer with considerable expertise in the orchestral field, would it be common to just use him and not the house engineers?
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I know this is done. I think bigger bands do it a little more readily with a producer who knows the band well and since they have a assumably pretty big budget to follow. But I think you should be able to rent out the studio and use your own engineer. Which I think is a really good idea and hopefully everything works out well for you. Good luck, Erockrazor
 
Erockrazor said:
I know this is done. I think bigger bands do it a little more readily with a producer who knows the band well and since they have a assumably pretty big budget to follow. But I think you should be able to rent out the studio and use your own engineer. Which I think is a really good idea and hopefully everything works out well for you. Good luck, Erockrazor
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Thanks for responding Erock :)

I know we have some studio owners here, how do y'all handle this?? Do you let strangers comandeer your precious gear? Keep in mind that these would be pros of course.

Another question:

If I rent a studio, cut some tracks, and something happens to them ( they get lost, for example), is a studio liable for this?? If I blow a few grand and something like that happens, what happens next?? :confused:
 
My policy is, you can bring you own engineer but I'm not cutting you a discount and I will still be in the control room. I can see why you would want to do this, based on the specificity of your recording, but most people that bring their own engineer just end up racking up more hours on the clock because their engineer doesn't know my studio's gear as well as I or my other engineers do.

As for your other question, I would assume that some studios have language about this sort of thing in their contract. If they lost your tracks, I can't see a way that they wouldn't be liable to AT LEAST re-record them at no charge. That's just speculation on my part. Maybe someone with experience on this type of thing will chime in. Good luck!
 
Thanks Mixxit. :cool:

Mixxit12 said:
My policy is, you can bring you own engineer but I'm not cutting you a discount and I will still be in the control room. I can see why you would want to do this, based on the specificity of your recording, but most people that bring their own engineer just end up racking up more hours on the clock because their engineer doesn't know my studio's gear as well as I or my other engineers do.
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I certainly would expect them to be there, I wouldnt want anyone to feel unwelcome.

In doing some research, it looks like the studios here have some nice gear but dont have the expertise or experience of recording orchestra players. One fella who does probably doesnt have the gear or the set up. I do very little session work here, and I have done a lot in various other markets. Upon looking around, I just dont see any studios here that are equipped to handle it. :(
 
DavidK said:
I know we have some studio owners here, how do y'all handle this?? Do you let strangers comandeer your precious gear? Keep in mind that these would be pros of course.
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Not only would I not let someone simply "comandeer" my room, It would be silly IMHO to just commandeer someone else's room without having them there in either a managing engineer or at least an assistant engineer role.

You're going to want somone who knows their way around the idiosyncracies of their specific studio; gear performance ("channel 3 on the snake has a dodgy ground", "channel strips 5-8 on the mixer are post-fader modded", etc.), the normalization paths of their patch bays, what's what in the microphone, equipment and tape lockers, the "secret" peculiarities of miking the acoustics of the sound room ("stick this mic up in that corner by the air return for a sweet verb", etc.), where's the thermostat and why does it ssem too hot or too cold, and, most important, where's the best place to order pizza. :) You can have your own guys acting as producer or co-engineer or AE, but if your new to the studio, I'd recommend having someone who knows it like the back of their hand around, for efficiency if nothing else.
DavidK said:
If I rent a studio, cut some tracks, and something happens to them ( they get lost, for example), is a studio liable for this?? If I blow a few grand and something like that happens, what happens next?? :confused:
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Like mixxit said, that should be covered in the contract (yes, there should be a contract, or at least terms of service, involved.) But basically it comes down to what is the actual product you are paying for?

If you are paying for an actual deliverable in the form of tape(s), disc(s) or file(s), and they are unable to deliver them because the material was lost somehow - and the loss was while it was their responsibility - then either they should have to refund you or re-do the work for no extra charge. But read the fine print first!

G.
 
Thanks Glen, I was hoping that you would chime in on this. :cool:

It would be silly IMHO to just commandeer someone else's room without having them there in either a managing engineer or at least an assistant engineer role.
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Commandeer was a bad choice of words. :o The house engineer would probably be very helpful as long as they were open to everything. Keep in mind that I am trying to think of "worse-case" scenarios when trying to envision this project.


If you are paying for an actual deliverable in the form of tape(s), disc(s) or file(s), and they are unable to deliver them because the material was lost somehow - and the loss was while it was their responsibility - then either they should have to refund you or re-do the work for no extra charge. But read the fine print first!
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Yeah, this is the part that scares me. I would probably go through the union, I am not sure of their protections. Hiring 15-20 union players for 2 or 3 sessions has got to be some serious bucks. They would have to cover it. Therefore, I am looking for all info I can and would perhaps contact a union attorney beforehand.
 
If you know an engineer with lots of experience, ask HIM where to go!
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
where's the thermostat and why does it ssem too hot or too cold,
G.
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Incidentally, my live room gets a full 10 degrees warmer than my control room. Sometimes on cold winter days, I'll have the thermostat set so that it's not artic cold in the control, all the while, the talent is sweating profusely in the live room. I should look into this......

Sorry for the hijack.
 
Mixxit12 said:
Incidentally, my live room gets a full 10 degrees warmer than my control room. Sometimes on cold winter days, I'll have the thermostat set so that it's not artic cold in the control, all the while, the talent is sweating profusely in the live room. I should look into this......
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You just need to turn on more tube gear :D.

G.
 
David, I think you will find that the studios that are best equipped to deal with the kinds of sessions you are planning to conduct will also accommodate you EXACTLY to your liking! They will indeed have house engineers available, but certainly will NOT charge you for them unless you use them. The studios I have gone to where we were not using one of the house engineers, usually the owner himself (no, at a lot of the places the owner is NOT considered a staff engineer!), or the studio manager would come in and show us the ropes and make himself at our beck and call at no additional price throughout the session, or at least until we were comfortable. In the bigger studios, there will always be somebody around to assist you and your personal engineer. At the rates these places charge, they want you to have the most favorable opinion of them possible! ;) But I gotta tell you, it is grand to be treated like royalty in somebody else's studio! :D

Without fail, these more upscale studios don't have nearly the kinds of "idiosyncracies" alluded to earlier! If they do, and the session was slowed down because of it, or a quick work around was not offered immediately, the owners were always very gracious with discounts and would have the problem fixed before the next session! If we were renting gear and had to rent it an extra day, they would credit us EXTRA studio time that covered the cost of that rental!

If indeed you have a quality engineer that you are bringing in, he will very quickly figure out the studio with only a little bit of assistance from a staff engineer/second engineer from the studio. Once you get out of the home studio realm, you start seeing how the bigger places put almost everything on a patch bay! :) Also, if your guy doesn't know how to use the console that is there, or read a spec sheet (yes, most places I have gone too have a book by the console documenting any modifications to the console), then maybe he is the wrong guy!

As to a studio that can accommodate your session, you have to remember that not every town is going to have a studio that can accommodate big sections of strings/orchestras. There simply is not enough call for that kind of session to justify the real estate required! Most studio at the most deal with maybe 9 or 10 session players at once, with many of them requiring isolation anyway! So, trying to bring in a orchestra to a studio that almost never gets a call for that kind of thing is rather silly eh?

I would imagine that most of the studios that can accommodate orchestras are probably located near movie studios because that is where most of the call for that kind of music is going to be! LA, New York! It might be worth it to fly to either to do your session. Also, because of the sheer numbers of session players in either area, you might actually get a better deal hiring from those areas! If anything, you will get a better bang for the buck, either better players for the same money, or the same quality of players for less! Worth checking out.

What you should be looking for possibly is a good quality mobile studio! The upper end mobile studios SHOULD have experience with orchestras and I think that they will also have an engineer who is experienced enough to be able to advise a bit concerning mic placement in a concert hall that will make your orchestral part fit into a more isolation orientated recording of a rock band. Generally, orchestras have closer section mics directly above the section, then the room mics. I'd imagine that it is a matter of mixing less of the room mics in the final mix that will help the orchestral parts fit in better, but I am no expert in this field. :)
 
Thanks Ed, lots of good info and advice there. :cool:

As to a studio that can accommodate your session, you have to remember that not every town is going to have a studio that can accommodate big sections of strings/orchestras.
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Its borderline here. There might be one who is set up for it, I would have to research. There certainly isnt much of a market for this here.

If anything, you will get a better bang for the buck, either better players for the same money, or the same quality of players for less! Worth checking out.
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This basically sums up the whole thing: Union-wise it would probably be a LOT cheaper to do it here, which is why I would have any interest in doing that. It may come that I have to submit some sort of proposal and want to be prepared. The players here are great because the Cleveland Orchestra and CIM (Cleveland Institute of Music) are here and are a big deal. The union rate for recording is less than half of a market like NYC since we have so little.

I lived in NYC, Chicago and Dallas before I came here. All have great studios and great players that I know well. I would certainly go that route if there was a budget for it. The advantage here is that I know everybody VERY well and could get a lot of "off the clock" time, things like taking music to another gig and saying " Hey Joe, is this timpani part written correctly".

I gotta say that I was underwhelmed when I heard the demos of the local studios, so therefore it would be merely financial to even think about doing something like that here. I have some CDs I made in Dallas, and the sound quality is in a much higher class. I will check out recording rates in Nashville, lots of good players there too.
 
most of the "big" studios i've ever been to price thier days with a second engineer included
(someone who knows the board, patchbay, rooms etc.....)
but the engineer is often not included in the day rate.
 
Mars, maybe, or maybe Spider. I doubt you're looking to switch to and record metal though...so you're probably SOL :(.
 
Thanks guys, I appreciate all the help.


Adam P said:
Mars, maybe, or maybe Spider. I doubt you're looking to switch to and record metal though...so you're probably SOL :(.
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Thanks Adam, I will look them up. I am definitely in contention for getting this gig. :cool:
 
Yeah, I'm sure it will likely be futile, though. They're the only Cleveland-area studios I can think of that I've heard stuff from, but its all been metal/hardcore/other heavy stuff.

If you know people in Chicago and can afford the trip there, why not book a day or two at Albini's place? He's got a 1200 sq foot live room and a great mic locker. You can get the room for $600 a day.
 
Adam P said:
If you know people in Chicago and can afford the trip there, why not book a day or two at Albini's place? He's got a 1200 sq foot live room and a great mic locker. You can get the room for $600 a day.
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And I'll join you for lunch :)

G.
 
Double whammy!

I need to return to that fair city here soon.
 
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