Studio Projects C1 vs. MXL603

  • Thread starter Thread starter hawk
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<< I don't care what mic it is, if you have to spend several hours working on placement, it ain't the right mic for what you're doing. >>

i totally disagree. many mics--especially higher end ones (and i'm thinking about my dragonfly in particular here) are VERY particular about where they're placed. it's a matter of inches (if even) between getting an "ok" sound and getting a "stunning" sound. and isn't "stunning sounds" what we're after? when i'm recording, i don't aim for "just ok". maybe you do. if i wanted "just ok" i'd just DI the damn thing and be done with it. i'm gonna have to live with this recording, so i want it to sound as good as possible.

when i'm recording myself, this OFTEN turns into several hours of experimentation before i find the sound i'm looking for or happy with--between adjustments, takes, listens, readjustments, retakes, relistens, etc. this is usually a considerably shorter time when i'm recording others, b/c like harvey said, it's a relatively simple matter of having the musician play and me walking around finding the sweetspot for the mics. i've been out of body before, but i haven't been able to master moving mics around in conjunction with it, so recording myself will continue to take time. :D

that's why recording is WORK. this is something that beginners just don't understand. it's not simply about slapping up some mics and hitting record and then bitching that a particular mic sucks. if that were the case, my dragonfly would SURELY be the WORST mic EVER.


cheers,
wade
 
mrface2112 said:
i totally disagree. many mics--especially higher end ones (and i'm thinking about my dragonfly in particular here) are VERY particular about where they're placed.
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I'd like to see you miking a drumkit: "OK, I've got the kick mic where I want it and that only took 7 hours. Now on to the snare. We should be ready to lay down some tracks by next Wednesday."

when i'm recording, i don't aim for "just ok". maybe you do.
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I'm not "slow and inefficient". Maybe you are. If you had a better ear and/or better judgement, you probably wouldn't require several hours to move a mic around and/or determine that another mic would work better on a particular source. Being slow and inefficient is not the same thing as having high standards.
 
nkjanssen said:
I don't care what mic it is, if you have to spend several hours working on placement, it ain't the right mic for what you're doing.
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Actually, that ususally means there's something wrong with the source. i.e. the guitar isn't right, the strings, the pick, or the person playing.

If the source sounds right, and the room is right, then you shouldn't have to go through a million possible positions ... I'll at least agree with that much.
 
chessrock said:
Actually, that ususally means there's something wrong with the source. i.e. the guitar isn't right, the strings, the pick, or the person playing.
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I was taking that as a given. If the source sounds like shit, don't even bother putting a mic in front of it until you get that fixed.
 
As with everything, it is always different for everyone. I like to put up three mikes and change position to find what I think works best, but then I have the locker to do this.

There is no one answer to this for hawk. Both SD and LD's have their uses. I like to use them both. I like an SD at the 12th fret above, and an LD about 12 to 18" back of the body placed where it sounds best, but everyone else may like something different.

We have had great results for classical on B1's, and C1's, but better results with the TB1 and T3 tube for classical guitar. I am sure their are other brand mikes out there that will also provide very good response as well.

To address his question, the C1 is more colored as a result of the electronic design and the 6mu capsule. The B1 uses a different circuit that is more neutral and uses a 3mu capsule. Both mikes have their pros and cons. The C1 can get you good results, but be prepared to spend time on its placement. The B1 is an easy mic to just stick up and get good results with, even if other peoples experience say otherwise, this is my opinion so take it for what it is worth.

The more time you spend on placement, the happier you will be. Your room, mic pre, and experience will play into the recording you will end up with, no matter what mic you use....
 
I think the problem here is that we're dealing with several different levels of recording ability and experience. Chessrock, Alan, and nkjanssen knows their rooms and their mics very well, and have enough experience to nail something pretty quickly.

Others may be less experienced and it's gonna take longer - often, a lot longer. But that's okay, because that's how people learn. By doing, trying, and learning what works, and where.

I can pretty much nail the sound of any drum set in about 1/2 hour, sometimes a little longer. I might make some minor adjustments while the band is warming up (or even big adjustments). Same with acoustic guitars and basses (although I might take longer on solo acoustic guitars).

We just got a grand piano for Studio A. While the piano tuner was getting the piano in tune, I was walking around, looking for sweet spots. I've found two so far; one that will work well for mono, and a pretty good spot for an X/Y setup. Still havent found the right spot for a spaced pair, or for close stereo miking, but I'll get to that when I can.

The bottom line: If you're just starting out, do a lot of listening and experimenting, till you get a feel for how to listen properly. Yeah, it may take several hours till you get good enough to do it in a few minutes. It's like learning an instrument; it takes a lot more time at first.
 
hey NK--

maybe you're misunderstanding or misreading. as i said above, when recording other people, it RARELY takes me long at all to get a mic in the right spot and get a nice sound moving. this is simple. and it's fast. like harvey said, it's a relatively quick and easy exercise to walk a mic around the room and put it where it sounds best.

i'm talking about recording myself, BY myself. i can't walk a mic around my guitar when i'm playing it. this makes things infintely more difficult.

yes, i have standard "starting points" where i like to put mics and go from there. but they're *starting* points. but to get a solid take with a sound that i'm totally happy with, sometimes (often?) it takes a couple hours of experimentation. this includes setup, making sure signal's passing to the proper things in the chain, laying down a take, evaluating the take (aka listening to it after the fact), taking notes (documenting what's where), making adjustments (that may or may not end up being an improvement), laying down another take, evaluating that take against the previous one, etc. until i master telekenesis, this will remain an exercise in difficulty. ya know, it's REALLY hard to adjust a compressor or the gain on the pre when i'm in the middle of a chord.

honestly, i find drums infinitely easier to record.....and i have to say that's b/c i don't care NEARLY as much about them, b/c drums usually sound like ass in my short-ceiling'd room to begin with. i've never gotten a drum sound in my room that i've been happy with, let alone "thrilled" with, and i've really stopped caring about it until i can get a better space. i put up a mono OH, a kick mic, a snare mic, make sure they pass signal and don't sound overly horrible and i punch the button. if drums sounded better in my room to start with, i'd prolly care more. but they don't, and i cut my losses.

however, i care a LOT more about the sound of my acoustic guitars, as that's the majority of what i record.


cheers,
wade
 
mrface2112 said:
hey NK--

i'm talking about recording myself, BY myself. i can't walk a mic around my guitar when i'm playing it. this makes things infintely more difficult.

cheers,
wade
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wade,

A good trick to do is to give yourself a headphone feed from a cue box or the mixer if it is close by. Either way, it is easy to get yourself a cue feed and then you can move around the mic until you are happy with the sound. Sure a headphone mix is not the best, but it will aid you in getting the right placement. I do that all the time when I am recording by myself. Having a large boom mic on wheels also helps you to move the mic position easily. If there is not another set of ears you trust, this is an easy way to solve your problem. In time, you get to know the headphones and you will trust the positioning based on them....
 
Wireneck said:
Who is offering the mod? Just curious my soldering skills aren't the greatest
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The info is posted so you can do it yourself. Look around your area, talk to guys at electronic shops. it is a simple mod and takes less than 10 minutes per microphone to do.
 
Alan--

Headphone feeds are a must--absolutely. addressing the headphone situation was one of the first things that i did. in fact, when my band was practicing at my place, instead of using power amps and monitors, we used headphones to monitor ourselves--our playing got much tighter since we could hear each other better and we saved our hearing to boot.

however, i find that even that's not a "silver bullet" if you will, as even leaning over to adjust the mic will change the position of where i am in relation to the mic, and that's "just as bad" as moving the mic. and also, these adjustments are done without any sound going to the mic--which puts me back into the realm of "guessing" again.

recording oneself by oneself is a very difficult proposition at best--and often i have to "settle" for "good enough". and while i'm often "content" with "good enough", still it's never as good a sound as i can get when i'm recording someone else. still i think i come out with a decent enough sound--i posted this over in the mixing clinic, but here's a decent example of my acoustic sound if anyone wants a listen <www.jalapenocornbread.com/homerec/i_know_why.mp3>. this was done over a year ago and things have improved greatly since then.


still, wouldn't it be nice to have a clone for just a little while? :D


cheers,
wade
 
sm57 is good on loud sources like an amp close up. Even better if you've got a high end pre. It has an indistinct lo-fi sound on unamplified guitar IMO.

Tim
 
Timothy Lawler said:
sm57 is good on loud sources like an amp close up. Even better if you've got a high end pre. It has an indistinct lo-fi sound on unamplified guitar IMO.

Tim
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yeah thats what ive heard in the past...... so what do you guys like to use on acoustics then
 
Nick The Man said:
yeah thats what ive heard in the past...... so what do you guys like to use on acoustics then
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I get decent results with the MXL 603s. I also like the Shure SM81, CAD M179, and even the MXL 990. The Behringer ECM8000 is pretty decent for nylon string.
 
crazydoc said:
They work for me.
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The link itself or the link to the pics in the article? The pics just come up a blank page for me. I'll check again when I get home.
 
hawk said:
The link itself or the link to the pics in the article? The pics just come up a blank page for me. I'll check again when I get home.
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The pics come up for me from their links.
 
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