Studio Projects C1 vs. B3

J

Julia

New member
I am attempting to decide between a purchase of a Studio Projects C1 mic or a B3. I can only afford one mic at this time, and thus I'm thinking that the B3 might be the way to go, since it offers omni, cardioid, and figure 8 patterns in one mic, while the C1 is strictly cardioid-only.

My use of mics consists of recording large groups of children, and recording soloists in a small home studio. I would also probably use the condenser, in cardioid pattern, for miking kids speaking on a stage occasionally.

My recording ability will be limited to the BR-1180CD, which has phantom power. I intend to record directly to the BR-1180CD, without a mixer.

Thanks for any thoughts/experiences/opinions regarding either mic.

Julia
 
The B3 is better suited for your needs. Also, you should consider a preamp, any preamp over just using the pre and phantom power on your recorder, the difference is night and day.
 
Thanks Philboyd, but...one more question...

Can you tell me why I would need a pre-amp in addition to what is supplied with the 1180CD?

How much more money is that going to run me, and why is it worth spending?

Thanks very much for your thoughts on the mic and the pre.

Julia
 
While you can get by with a dynamic mic going into most hard disk recorders, a separate preamp with a condenser mic will give you much better results. The recorders preamps are designed to take a wide spectrum of inputs, from line in's to mics, and they tend to not do anything very well. They tend to like a nice strong signal coming in.

My Tascam 788 doesn't even have phantom power, and if you plugged in a dynaminc mic like a SM57 direct, you use up nearly all the gain on the trim knob just to hear anything. And that was hissy. Same thing for the Roland unit I had before it.

There's lots of entry level preamps that will do the job for you; Art, Presonus, etc. Or, a little higher up the chain, Studio Projects makes a nice unit......plenty of threads on preamps in this forum.

Yes, it's a little more money you have to spend, but you'll be glad you did it.
 
For about $240, you could get an Audio Buddy mic pre and 2 SP B1's. That would probably cover most of the situations you describe and is a pretty decent starter setup. Check out www.8thstreet.com. They do free shipping for orders over $149.
 
Thanks, friends...gosh...this is getting bewildering!

Seems every time I turn around there's MORE gear to buy. I really need to make sure I'm buying NECESSARY gear, though. According to Roland, of course, I do not need a pre-amp. Supposedly, those used in the 1180-CD are FIIIIINE pre-amps. hehe I can hear you guys out there now. Thanks very much for the tips regarding the pre-amp. I wish I didn't need one, but if I need one, I need one. It sounds from what you're saying that it won't make a LITTLE difference, it will make a whole lotta difference. Sigh. Add a pre-amp to the list.

Now...regarding these B1's. Thank you for the reference. I did have a look at them online. They run about $79 these days. I would guess that indicates that they are a much lower end mic than either the C1 or the B3.

Can you tell me please how significant the difference is? Obviously, one difference between the B1 and the B3 is that the B3 has the omni/cardioid/figure 8 options.

Is the B1 pretty low end as mics go? 'Cause really...I'd rather spend more $$$ on one GOOD mic, than less on two very mediocre mics and a pre-amp.

Thanks SO much for all of the guidance. I appreciate all of it so much.

Julia
 
Thanks, friends...gosh...this is getting bewildering!

Seems every time I turn around there's MORE gear to buy. I really need to make sure I'm buying NECESSARY gear, though. According to Roland, of course, I do not need a pre-amp. Supposedly, those used in the 1180-CD are FIIIIINE pre-amps. hehe I can hear you guys out there now. Thanks very much for the tips regarding the pre-amp. I wish I didn't need one, but if I need one, I need one. It sounds from what you're saying that it won't make a LITTLE difference, it will make a whole lotta difference. Sigh. Add a pre-amp to the list.

Now...regarding these B1's. Thank you for the reference. I did have a look at them online. They run about $79 these days. I would guess that indicates that they are a much lower end mic than either the C1 or the B3.

Can you tell me please how significant the difference is? Obviously, one difference between the B1 and the B3 is that the B3 has the omni/cardioid/figure 8 options.

Is the B1 pretty low end as mics go? 'Cause really...I'd rather spend more $$$ on one GOOD mic, than less on two very mediocre mics and a pre-amp.

Thanks SO much for all of the guidance. I appreciate all of it so much.

Julia
 
Julia,

If time is not an issue, why don't you get the mics, see if you like the results you're geting with the on-board pre-amps, and if you don't you can always get an out board pre.
Yes - a good pre (even an Audio-Buddy) can make a world's difference, but the question is, do you really need that difference for what you are doing.
I remember you mentioning a mixer you could get a hold of. If it is a Mackie or equivalent (or better), you might as well use the pres on the mixer. Mackie VLZ pres are more or less equivalent to an Audio-Buddy.

Oren
 
I've had really good luck with my B1's. Don't let the low cost fool you, it's a great mic at a great price. My thinking in recommending that setup was to allow you more versatility in your recording.

That being said, the C1 is is one sweet mic. My B3 is in the mail, so I can't comment on it yet, but I'm guessing it's going to be just as good.

Hope that helps some.
 
Thanks, Matty...by versatility, in this case...

...do you mean because with the B1's I'd have two mics and could thus angle one toward the chorus from the left side and one from the right side and obtain a better sound that way?

How is the B1 as strictly a mic for recording a solo voice in a studio setting? I notice you've gotten yourself a C1 (which I'd REALLY love to have in duplicate!) and a B3, which I'd really love to have for the versatility in the one mic.

Any reason you've moved on from the B1's?

Thanks so much for offering your thoughts to me.

Julia
 
philboyd studge said:
While you can get by with a dynamic mic going into most hard disk recorders, a separate preamp with a condenser mic will give you much better results.
Click to expand...

I'd say a good preamp is more important with a Dynamic mic than a Condensor. Those C1's are so hot you can practically plug them into a line level input.
 
The B1's I have get a lot of use as room mikes, drum overheads, vocal mics, etc. They're a good, all-around mic. They don't see a ton of work on my vocals (That's why I have the C1), but they sound great on the bass player in my band. Go figure.

I actually bought the C1 first, then added the B1's next. Now I'm getting a B3, mostly to use live for my bluegrass band. I'm on a buying tear lately.

Yes. I was thinking you'd get better results using a pair of B1's to mic the choir. It would give you a nice stereo image to work with.
 
I agree with Aren. A good preamp can make a big difference, but you should first buy the mic(s) and try them out with the pres of your recorder. Preamps come in many flavors and you shouldn´t buy one before you know what you are looking for.

It´s like a scientific test: only change one variable at a time.
 
Re: Thanks, Matty...by versatility, in this case...

Julia said:
...do you mean because with the B1's I'd have two mics and could thus angle one toward the chorus from the left side and one from the right side and obtain a better sound that way?

Thanks so much for offering your thoughts to me.

Julia
Click to expand...

Julia,

These decisions are tough, but maybe I can help. Skip the preamps for now, they can come later, and you will still get great results.

Here is the issue at hand. The B Series and C Series are both great mics. Don't let the price of the B Series fool you. The main difference is the type of sound. The C Series is a very colored warm "German" type sounding mic and uses much more components, so it costs more. The B Series is less colored more neutral but loads of tone. More like an AKG. The B Series uses a one piece body a different design with less components, but still sounds great, just costs much less to produce.

If you can swing $360.00, get a C1 and a B3. If that is too much money, get a B3 and B1. That is $240.00. The reason I like the two mic set up with either combination is you can use them for a left right room mic with the B3 set for Cardioid like the B1. If you switch the B3 to Figure Eight, you have an M/S set up, a mid/side using the two mics for stereo. In addition, the B3 can be used in the Omni mode and become a room mic, or an overhead for the chorus, while the B1 sits out front. The choices are much more flexible if you go that way.

This is my suggestion to you. You can add mic amps later, but before you go there, get the mics and see how everything works for you. There are plenty of our dealers out there that are good, so I leave that up to you. I would not want any of my dealers to think that I suggest one over the other.

I think the decision comes down to your budget. Perhaps one of the suggestions I mentioned fit. If I can help further with more information, call me toll free at 1-877-563-6335

Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group
 
Alan, what does "neutral but loads of tone" mean.
Neutral normally means "flatter" frequency response and/or
"transparent" sounding to me.

Thanks
Chris
 
Thanks, and regarding the pre-amp...

Thank you all very much for your kind guidance.

Regarding the matter of needing a pre-amp for optimal recording using the BR-1180CD. I did talk to Roland techs, and I was told that the 1180 it has a 24 bit ADT converter, which is top of the line. The tech told me that I should not spend any money on a pre-amp prior to trying the set-up without one, because he sincerely believes I won't find a need for a pre-amp. Thought I'd post that information in case it might be of use to someone else.

As for the mic situation, I am getting very confused regarding stereo recording, I think. THe gentleman who kindly took the time to suggest a B1 + B3 set-up got me wondering why one would use two different types of mics in an effort to get a stereo sound. Doesn't each mic record the sound differently? Would that not offer some imbalance?

The C1 sure does have a fine reputation out there. I've read oodles of good reviews. But I must say, the STudio Projects mics overall seem to be getting a really fine reputation. I'm embarrassed to say that I'd not heard of Studio Projects until I started doing the mic-related research.

I'm afraid I just don't know enough about components to make an informed enough decision. The budget is getting more limited all the time, however, as we buy more and more gear, so I'm going to have to make a budget-minded choice and hope for the best.

We do have 3-4 good SM58's already, but I guess they'd not offer any use in this recording of the children setting anyway.

The reason I like the idea of the B3, in addition to its reviews, is the fact that it encompasses omni, cardioid, and figure 8 and so can be more useful to us in various settings. Again, I do need to use whatever I buy to ALSO record the soloists. I need to keep that in mind as well. Otherwise, all I'll have to apply to the soloists are the SM58's.

So...I'd have to ask the following question, with due respect for all of the wonderful advice I've been offered, and have so appreciated...

Can I use the B3 to get a nice recording of a soloist (in cardioid mode), and then also use the B3 (in omni mode) to get a nice recording of a group of 20-40 children at one time? (Perhaps I'd be able to place the children in a circle and place the mic in the middle of the circle?

Or is stereo the only way to go...two mics, one on each side of the kids?

Thanks immensely for your time and attention, all of you fine folks.

Julia
 
Sonicly the B1 and B3 are the same if used in cardloid. Getting both is valid advise. As for the preamp, you can get an audiobuddy for about 25 bucks used, I did. For your soloists you may want to record them alone for the best results.
 
Thank you, Darrin...quick question?

Thanks, Darrin. I see your point about the B1 and the B3 if both are used in cardioid pattern. That makes sense.

I'd have to just quickly ask, though...if I am going to use both the B1 and the B3 in cardioid, then why couldn't I simply get two B1's? Wouldn't that serve the same purpose and cost less?

I guess I'd have to wonder...if I'm not going to use the omni mode or the figure 8 mode, and if the B1 and B3 are equal mics when in cardioid mode, why not buy two B1's?

Thanks to anyone who can help me sort this part out! :)

You've all been very kind to guide us through this process.

Thanks again.

Julia
 
Re: Thanks, and regarding the pre-amp...

Julia said:

THe gentleman who kindly took the time to suggest a B1 + B3 set-up got me wondering why one would use two different types of mics in an effort to get a stereo sound. Doesn't each mic record the sound differently?
Click to expand...

Alan is the owner of PMI Audio, the manufacturer of the B and C series Studio Projects mics you are considering--and a respected audio engineer. Although he will always have a bias toward his own brand of mics, his advice on recording, mic technique, and related issues will always be top notch.
 
Thanks very much...then perhaps he is the one I should be asking...

...why we'd need a B1 and a B3 instead of just a pair of B1's. I'll be glad to take the advice of this professional, but just need to ask him to bear in mind that we are a small elementary school with a HIGHLY limited budget. That's why I need to ask all the questions and scope out all the options before putting out any cash. While we don't wish to sacrifice quality, especially for this project, we also have very little money to spend. (You wouldn't believe the amount of personal cash I throw into these projects every year and consider them a donation to the school...in addition to hours upon hours upon hours of donated time.)

But I vow to buy TWO C1's when we start valuing education in this country as much as we do basketball, football, baseball...etc.

;-)

Until then, what's the solution for us with the most quality considering expense issues?

Thanks immensely to you all.

Julia

P.S. How wonderful to have the owner of an audio company posting on this board. That is really fabulous. I like this board a lot. It's a wealth of information...(and confusion for the novice like myself!) ;-)
 
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