Studio Projects B3 or CAD M179?

C

CUSETOWN

New member
I'm looking to buy 2 mics for stereo location & ambient recording.. I also considered the new stereo MXL V67 but I'd prefer the ability to space them out more.

Having switchable patterns is a must, & a roll off is preferred..

I originally thought the way to go would be SDC's but Jon at naiant recommended LDC's for lower self noise.. Though self noise isn't my absolute decider, it's a factor. I've heard the CAD M179 called a poor man's AKG C414XLS.. Maybe thats an overstatement, but if it's even close, I'm sold.. I have an XLS, can't afford 2, and wouldnt want to take them out of the house if I did! lol.. Anyway.. I want to record everything from frogs in a swamp to crickets & the like. I already have an AKG mono-shotgun and an AT822 stereo mic, and sometimes use the onboard my Sony PCM D50 when the Signal/noise ratio allows.. But I really need something mroe sensitive than the AT822, and quieter than the onboard mics... I'm also open to portable preamp suggestions.. So far I'm thinking I'll just keep my eyes peeled for a used Apogee mini-me. Anyhing else as good under $500? Thanks in advance people!.. Always impressed with what I walk away learning on here.. ;)

Any suggestions are much appreciated..
 
Well, I can't say I've used one of these but I hear a lot of good things about the V67Q and they are relatively cheap. Two of those for under $500 ain't bad.

I've owned a SP B1 and although it was nice, I wasn't particularly impressed. Have you considered any of the Rode line? Rode NT1A is a nice mic. Nt1000 is a bit more but uses JFET for impedence conversion which is as good as it gets without using an actual transformer.

I know that transformerless circuitry is quieter but a lot of that "warmth" that people search for comes from having a transformer in the circuit. Prime example Neumann U87.
 
Am I missing something???Id think he would only need one V67Q...

Having switchable patterns is nice...but you can still get wonderful results with 2 SDC...and there are some super cheap DIY shockmounts if self noise is an issue.
 
I think a matched pair of Studio projects, any model, is your best bet. you can use them for ANYTHING...i have 2 B1's and i love them.:D
 
darrin_h2000 said:
Am I missing something???Id think he would only need one V67Q...
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Right. I was looking for the original V67G not the Q. I still think the Rode NT1000 is your best bet under $500.00(each). Probably the closest you will get to owning a U87 without actually buying one.
 
The C1 is a good mic, however Rode mics are NOT made in China. They are made in Sydney Austrailia. One of the reasons they are so inexpensive is that they are made using surface mounted circuitry. My big concern with this is heat. I would want to make sure the room is well air conditioned especially where FET or Tube circuitry is concerned. It doesn't take much heat to kill any surface mounted pc boards.

One of my favorite cheap amps was a ROSS 25 watt practice amp. Mossfet based. The closest thing to a tube amp you could get without buying a tube amp. This was in the late 80's surface mounting had just started being in use. It was a great amp but had no ventilation.

On a hot summer day I cranked it and the solder around the MOSFET transistor melted away. The heatsink was not nearly good enough to wick away the heat. Just before it died it sounded awesome.

At any rate, MOSFET is as close to Tube as you can get using transistors. In fact there were some amps, wicked good sounding amps designed around MOSFET near the nineties.
 
hueseph said:
I've owned a SP B1 and although it was nice, I wasn't particularly impressed. Have you considered any of the Rode line? Rode NT1A is a nice mic. Nt1000 is a bit more but uses JFET for impedence conversion which is as good as it gets without using an actual transformer.
Click to expand...

All condenser mics have either a tube or a JFET, irrespective of whether or not they have a transformer. The active element is doing the bulk of the work, having a very high input impedance and output impedance ~1000 ohms. The next stage can be any number of components, including a transformer or different types of transistors.

Transformer mics aren't necessarily noisier than transformerless mics; it might seem that way because newer designs tend to be transformerless. That is mainly due to cost and not noise. Sometimes, a transformerless design is preferred for reasons of frequency response and lower distortion.

A good example would be the DPA 4006 vs. 4006TL.


The C1 is a good mic, however Rode mics are NOT made in China. They are made in Sydney Austrailia. One of the reasons they are so inexpensive is that they are made using surface mounted circuitry. My big concern with this is heat. I would want to make sure the room is well air conditioned especially where FET or Tube circuitry is concerned. It doesn't take much heat to kill any surface mounted pc boards.
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SMT components can take whatever their rated dissipation is. If a particular unit fails, it's because it was improperly engineered. Through-hole components may also be improperly engineered.

Anyway, the power dissipation inside a FET condenser mic is tiny. A mic that draws 3mA dissipates a whopping 0.1W inside the mic. A single 0805 resistor can dissipate that without breaking a sweat. I don't think you'll notice the difference in your A/C bill.

Microphone cost doesn't have much to do with SMT vs. through-hole. A manufacturer will spend more on through-hole assembly, true. But a lot of the top mics in the world are SMT, and many of the cheapest Chinese mics are through-hole. The cost of a quality capsule will dwarf the difference in circuit assembly costs. SMT components also tend to enjoy much tighter tolerances than through-hole parts, with exceptions of course. SMT assembly techniques can be much more precise than through-hole.

On a hot summer day I cranked it and the solder around the MOSFET transistor melted away. The heatsink was not nearly good enough to wick away the heat. Just before it died it sounded awesome.

At any rate, MOSFET is as close to Tube as you can get using transistors. In fact there were some amps, wicked good sounding amps designed around MOSFET near the nineties.
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? I don't think there are a lot of mics with MOSFETs--their gate capacitance is too high.

The MOSFET in your amp was a power circuit, and if it was a class A amp, it would have to dissipate at least 50% of the total power. That could be 25W! Probably though it was class AB, even then maybe 10W is possible. Nothing remotely approaching that power will occur inside a FET mic.

Any type of FET is thought to be "tube-like"; you don't see JFET-output guitar amps because JFETs don't come with more than about 500mA Idss.
 
mshilarious said:
All condenser mics have either a tube or a JFET, irrespective of whether or not they have a transformer. The active element is doing the bulk of the work, having a very high input impedance and output impedance ~1000 ohms. The next stage can be any number of components, including a transformer or different types of transistors.

Transformer mics aren't necessarily noisier than transformerless mics; it might seem that way because newer designs tend to be transformerless. That is mainly due to cost and not noise. Sometimes, a transformerless design is preferred for reasons of frequency response and lower distortion.

A good example would be the DPA 4006 vs. 4006TL.




SMT components can take whatever their rated dissipation is. If a particular unit fails, it's because it was improperly engineered. Through-hole components may also be improperly engineered.

Anyway, the power dissipation inside a FET condenser mic is tiny. A mic that draws 3mA dissipates a whopping 0.1W inside the mic. A single 0805 resistor can dissipate that without breaking a sweat. I don't think you'll notice the difference in your A/C bill.

Microphone cost doesn't have much to do with SMT vs. through-hole. A manufacturer will spend more on through-hole assembly, true. But a lot of the top mics in the world are SMT, and many of the cheapest Chinese mics are through-hole. The cost of a quality capsule will dwarf the difference in circuit assembly costs. SMT components also tend to enjoy much tighter tolerances than through-hole parts, with exceptions of course. SMT assembly techniques can be much more precise than through-hole.



What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? I don't think there are a lot of mics with MOSFETs--their gate capacitance is too high.

The MOSFET in your amp was a power circuit, and if it was a class A amp, it would have to dissipate at least 50% of the total power. That could be 25W! Probably though it was class AB, even then maybe 10W is possible. Nothing remotely approaching that power will occur inside a FET mic.
Click to expand...

Well. I stand corrected there don't I? LOL. Regarding the amp well that was my experience with SMT and a very hot MOSFET transistor. I was building my own effects at the time and I'm sure that didn't help any.

Any type of FET is thought to be "tube-like"; you don't see JFET-output guitar amps because JFETs don't come with more than about 500mA Idss
Click to expand...

Fortunately we're not talking about amps(with the exception of my tirade).

If a particular unit fails, it's because it was improperly engineered.
Click to expand...
The ROSS had a known heat issue. Many people commented on it and at least one reviewer suggested adding a vent and a fan as a mod.

I'm not here to PROVE anything. Thanks for clearing all that up. I still think the NT1000 is a good choice.
 
I have never used a SP B3 but I have used a CAD M179. Based on personal experience I would use the CAD M179. It is a great mic useful on so many sources. I use them for vox, acoustic gtr, bass, toms, under snare. A 179 can handle some extreme SPL and at the same time it is a very sensitive and clear mic.

Also if self noise is an issue, the CAD M179 has 11dBA while the Studio Projects B3 has 14dBA.
 
hueseph said:
The ROSS had a known heat issue. Many people commented on it and at least one reviewer suggested adding a vent and a fan as a mod.
Click to expand...

I'd try adding a Peltier junction as a mod.... :D

Depending on what type of solder was used, surface mount parts can be problematic. The melting point of some of the lowest temperature reflow solder is within the safe operating temperature range for some Intel and AMD CPUs, for example. It really isn't that hard to reach 90C. Fortunately, most folks use solder with higher melting points even for SMT work.

I agree with MsH, though, that the half watt (total) available to a microphone shouldn't be enough to be a problem.
 
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