Studio Projects B1 in the kick is clipping

  • Thread starter Thread starter zbert
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FBstdminime said:


Then what is?

Well I like the older AKG D12, but the D112 is good. I usually go to the D12. I like the RE20 and the Sennheiser E602 for some things. I have also used the C1 with great success, and I have used the B1.

There you have it

Alan Hyatt
 
Well, as long as y'all are talkin' 'bout me...

Hey, Alan! I always wanted to get flamed by a gen-u-wine celebrity. :D

But seriously, I did read the thread in it's entirety, but I did somehow miss the point that you were trying to give him an "instant" solution in case he needed to finish his recording immediately. And I guess maybe i should have said: "or just go buy a pad as many other fine people have already suggested", so that I wouldn't be accused of trying to take credit for the idea as an original thought. But i thought it was self-evident, though apparently not to everyone.

The fact is, i was not making "drummer jokes" either, and the confusion is probably from me being not specific enough about referencing the context of my remarks ("This is getting to be an epidemic...") I realize you are a busy guy and probably aren't always able to read all the other threads in all the other forums on this site. I certainly don't myself - i just pick a half-dozen to skim through.

But if you had been in some other threads and rooms recently on Homerec, you would have seen an epidemic of advice that, unfortunately, yours sounded remarkably in the same vein. For instance, recently you would have seen:

•Don't even try to let the vocalist record her voice and guitar simultaneously. It's too hard to get a good sound. It's up to you to be able to convince her to record each part seperately, after all, you're the engineer, and what does she know?

•If you are getting too much cymbals in your drum mix, tell the drummer to use lighter gauge sticks with wood tips.

•If you are going to record a band, you should record one instrument at a time. That way you'll have the most control of the sound.

...and a bunch of other similar advice.

Unfortunately, the "lighten up on your foot" remark came right after I had just read a bunch of that other stuff, so you can see the context of how I was reacting.

Naturally, Alan, I'm not lumping you in with the folks who made some of the above remarks. But rather I was trying to make the point to some of the newer impressionable readers that it should NOT be the primary solution to a recording problem to tell the artist to change their performance style for the convenience of the engineer. (Unfortunately your remarks COULD be interpreted as advocacy of that by someone who maybe didn't know you well. Hence my response, the sarcasm of which was being directed at the whole context of similar posts, not at you personally.)

Obviously, I'm sure we both agree the engineer should serve the musical performance, not the other way around. While we can all come up with extreme examples where performance compromises have to be made in order to have any chance of capturing it on tape, the first thought that occurs to the engineer should NOT be to disrupt the creative process by forcing the artists to think about stuff that will distract them from focusing on the music.

So, in reality, I was defending the drummers of the world, by saying they have every right to kick the ass of an engineer who thinks he/she has the right to tell them to "play with lighter sticks" or "lighten up on the right foot."

But anyway, you may not have noticed, but I've also been one of your (and Stephen's) biggest defenders around here when i thought you were being treated shabbily. I'm very excited about some of your current projects. And you're going to have to do a much better job of trying to pick a fight with me to get me to stop respecting both you and your work! Right now, you ain't even close! :D
 
P.S. By the way, thanks to all you guys who jumped to my defense. It brings a tear to my eye... I didn't know y'all cared....(sniff)!
 
Oh no! ! !

Ethan has taken over Little Dog's brain.

:D Come back, Dog!
 
littledog said:
So, in reality, I was defending the drummers of the world, by saying they have every right to kick the ass of an engineer who thinks he/she has the right to tell them to "play with lighter sticks" or "lighten up on the right foot."

Hmmm drummers... Did you read Mixermans latest thread? No offense, I think he has the right idea when engineering for drummers.

[/B][/QUOTE]And you're going to have to do a much better job of trying to pick a fight with me to get me to stop respecting both you and your work! Right now, you ain't even close! :D [/B][/QUOTE]

I am not picking a fight with you, in fact, maybe you read my earlier post where it said... If I did, my fault and I am sorry

So please read into the sorry part, I will be happier then, even though I think the engineer/producer has the right to tell the drummer to lighten up.....:D

Alan Hyatt
 
alanhyatt said:

... maybe you read my earlier post where it said... If I did, my fault and I am sorry

Rather than get into a "you didn't read/understand what I said" "No, No, you didn't read/understand what I said..." it might be more fruitful (if anyone still is the slightest bit interested) to get the context of my remarks. Please check this out for a good chuckle (or cry, depending on your mood):

How do the pros get the artist to do it your way?


alanhyatt said:

So please read into the sorry part, I will be happier then, even though I think the engineer/producer has the right to tell the drummer to lighten up.....:D

Aaaaahhhhhhhhaaaaaa! PRODUCER... That's a different story. Everyone knows the producer tells everyone what to do. At least some of them do! Clearly I missed that key part of the discussion... Have to start paying more attention in class!

Anyway, i was sure I was going to delight and dazzle you in my last post with my breezy literate style and incisive insights. Apparently I'm not as breezy and incisive as i thought! :D
 
Let me put another .02 as I started this mess. I'm a 44 year old drummer. The reason I came here is after all these years of recording and pissing and moaning about studio guys telling me to lighten up or do this or that I wanted to learn myself. Drums seem to be the hardest instrument to get a good mix on. It's even harder as a novice engineer. Much of the advice here is from some very expereniced people. Not all of whom know how to talk to newbies. That's why I've read evey post from Harvey. The man knows how to explain something to a person like me. Alan tried his best to get me going the other night. After reading all the advice I pulled the mic out of the kick, put a heavy blanket over the drum and mic and got a very good sound. I also learned here it might be better to use by B1 on another part of the kit and get myself something like a E602 or Beta 52 for the kick. I'm learning. BUT where I feel much of the problem here is telling a drummer how to play. I've seen bashers, I've seen guys hit the drum so weak it always sounds like crap. But, if that's the vibe a drummer/band wants who is an engineer to tell someone to "change/alter" the way they are playing. It's more the engineers task to capture the sound. ( read anything on how Charle Watts plays)If the drummers hits hits his cymbals too hare to where they distorts the mics move the mics, limit, pad whatever but this is how the drummer hears his equipment. I think (IMHO) you causing more problems getting a drummer to change technique than for the engineer to change a few mics or mic positons.
Maybe this is the ignorance of a newbie engineer but I've spent enought time in studios and working/teaching drummers to know I always liked the engineer who goes in the studio with the musicans and really listens to what the instrument sounds like and how it's played to how they want to mic the instrument.
The bottom line to me is it's all good. I'm learing a ton here. I wish this was around when I was in my early playing years. There are as many different ways of doing the same thing as there are engineers here. Just take it easy on those of us who are not as knowledge here on one side of the glass as we are on the other.

PS hey Alan. If you put the B1 outside an old Ludwig kick then cover the whole thing with a heavy blanket you get a really cool Ringo sound
 
Amen brother Z! THat's all I was trying to say!

Maybe the problem is that you and I were musicians first, engineers second. One of those "never the twain shall meet...." situations! Keep the faith!
 
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