Studio Monitors

[RFR]

Well, those are a thing of beauty, that's for sure.

 

[miroslav]

I didn't use the flash...so it's kinda dark, and you don't quite see the red color in the Focal wood panels...but you can find them online for a real good look.

 

[garww]

Suddenly, Golem not want precious

 

[JimmyS1969]

So I just wanted to follow-up like I said I would on my new Focal Twin6 Be monitors now that I had a chance to use them for about 10 days, and also now that I've completed the initial break-in process, as recommended.
I probably spent at least 30 hours breaking them in...they recommend at least 10, most people say about 20, though a lot depends on how loud you monitor.
The break-in started with about 10 hours of wide dynamic range music at moderate listening levels...so I ran through most of my Classical music CDs...then maybe about 10 hours of more punchier Rock stuff at higher moderate levels...and finally lots of low-end Dance/Trance at loud levels (I wasn't in the room)...about 3/4 up of the monitors' capability, or to the point where the speaker movement was visible.

I was pleasantly surprised how much the low end opened up at the end. Initially, out of the box, it was super tight...and after the break-in, it loosened up, but not in a bad/sloppy way...instead it just became thicker/heavier sounding, but still very defined.
All the doubt I had, that the smaller 6.5 speakers might not give me that thick low end...were wiped away. These babies have as much low-end as my Mackie HR824 monitors when they are turned up. At low levels, maybe a pinch less depth than the Mackies, which have the passive radiator in the back that gives them the extra bit of depth, considering I have them close to the front wall...but once the Focals are turned up a bit, their low end depth blooms out, and it does so without muddying up the sound and loading up the room...where the Mackies at louder levels would get too bassy in my space.

I know the Focal Twin6 are not going to fit everyone's budget...and I never planned on buying them, but after using the Mackies for almost 15 years now, I really wanted to take it up a notch, and I was originally looking at the Adam A7X or the Focal Solo6 monitors as my step up from the Mackies...but the 0% financing for 36 months made the Twins too tempting to resist, and I'm so glad I bit the bullet and got them instead. I've gone through a few monitors over the years, and figured I owed myself at least one set of high-end monitors during my years of recording.

I think there are a lot of monitors that can be used to mix on with good results if you learn them...it's just that the better ones maybe get you there a bit easier...but still, there's no magic in the monitors...you can mess up a mix regardless of them...though these Focals are more revealing in the low-mid trouble zone, which I always had to fight with on the Mackies, so I'm expecting them to be a big help with the mixing.
For now, I'm going to keep the Mackies...just 'cuz my setup looks real good with both the Mackies and the Focals side-by-side...but I may sell them at some point, as I doubt I will be even turning them on that much any more.

Oh...almost forgot...so the cool thing about the Twin6 monitors is that you can place them in several positions, and you can also change which of the two 6.5" speakers acts as your mids-lows and your lows.
I started with them horizontal...lows in, mid-lows out...tweeter on top. I didn't try them with the tweeter on bottom, no point to that, IMO. I then tried with the lows out...and that wasn't as good.
Then I went vertical with them...lows on top, mid-lows on bottom...tweeter in...and then same thing, tweeter out. Then I switched the lows to the bottom, and mid-low to the top...again tweeter in and then tweeter out.

I finally settled on the vertical position, lows on top, mid-low on bottom and tweeter outside....and then I ran across some comments on another site where someone said that Bob Hodas, who does acoustic analysis and room tuning, set them up that same way. Granted, it was for different room...but that's also how they sounded best to me in my studio.
The horizontal position, low in, mid-low out, tweeter on top would be my other choice. In that position the stereo image almost embraces you, but in the vertical position there is much better left/right definition, since you have both speaker and tweeter in line on the same L/R plane...where horizontally, those elements are spread out L/R.
Plus in the vertical position, the sound is more 3D...with the added height of the monitors. Also, vertically, the mid-point between the mid-low speaker and tweeter is exactly at my ear level...where horizontally, it's an inch or so lower, which I could have compensated for with another layer of decoupling under the monitors...but the vertical position was such a clear winner, so it all fell into place just right.

Anyway...if you have the desire to go for something much higher-end in monitors...highly recommend the Focal Twin6...though of course, you can go even much higher than them, but that's for some other time...after the lottery.



I said I would post once I decided on the position...so here you go.

Great things to hear! Well, hear about.

I myself am in a similar happy place with my A7X purchase. It is amazing how much clarity a good pair of monitors can make. I was initially sub-consciously worried that things would sound too good in studio and not translate outside of the treated studio. All for not. The clarity of the next level of monitors made it easy to hear exactly what I was listening to in studio. Translation way better than before. And yes, what happens in the break in period also was apparent to me as well. Only way I can describe is that they 'opened up'.

Now, time to get some $10,000 monitors and an ear piercing. lol!

Cheers Miro!

 

[miroslav]

The clarity of the next level of monitors made it easy to hear exactly what I was listening to in studio. Translation way better than before. And yes, what happens in the break in period also was apparent to me as well. Only way I can describe is that they 'opened up'.

Yeah....they really "opened up" after the break-in, and already I am hearing things differently with my mixes...much detail clarity. On one tune I stopped playback and reloaded the song, just to check if I had accidentally nudged some levels...things just sounded more "there".

The other thing that sold me on the Twin5 besides the 0% interest for 36 months......was that almost everyone was saying how well their mixes translated once they started using them. They are a bit mid-forward, but in such a way that it helps you define that most critical area a lot better....at least that's the rumor. I'll see how things go after I use them for awhile, but I already know they will work better for me than the Mackies, which I think are pretty goo for just hearing a finished mix on, but not as good as the Focals for making the mix...if that makes any sense.

 

[garww]

I'm not trying to dis monitoring, but if the new monitors are the best you've heard, that may be mostly the "best you've heard". Go listen to the sm9, or, anything we don't want to consider : ) If you go to a trade show and have a WOW moment, it doesn't mean your monitoring isn't good, just that you have expanded your perspective

 

[Pinky]

Thanks for the detailed followup.

I'm curious about the stands and the speaker placement. They appear to be contacting the inner (Mackie?) speakers. Is that not a factor?

Also, what sort of stands do you use? [I have decent stands, I'm just curious as I like those stand's simplicity]

 

[garww]

I think miroslav did good with setup. Like I say not everyone has optimal choices. I'm betting the Mackies will be moved, though

 

[miroslav]

I'm not trying to dis monitoring, but if the new monitors are the best you've heard, that may be mostly the "best you've heard". Go listen to the sm9, or, anything we don't want to consider : ) If you go to a trade show and have a WOW moment, it doesn't mean your monitoring isn't good, just that you have expanded your perspective

Mmmm...I never said these are the "best I've heard"...thought they are the best I've bought for my studio.

Been to AES and to many a music store, and heard all kids of monitors, right up to the $5k/monitor range... and just recently I also heard the Focal Trio6 monitors at someone's studio. At one point right after I got the Twins, I was actually considering maybe just moving up to the Trio6, and skipping the Twin6...but after the break in and hearing how well the Twin6 sounded, there was no need to drop another $2k to go to the Trio6...not that I didn't think they were a bit "bigger" sounding...it's just they would have been overkill in my space.

Thanks for the detailed followup.

I'm curious about the stands and the speaker placement. They appear to be contacting the inner (Mackie?) speakers. Is that not a factor?

Also, what sort of stands do you use? [I have decent stands, I'm just curious as I like those stand's simplicity]

Nope....nothing is touching, they are just very close together...maybe 1/8" between them.
I don't use stands.
As you can kinda see in the picture the monitors are on a "sandwich" made of: 1/4" neoprene rubber/1" piece of marble stone/1/4" neoprene rubber...and that sits directly on top of my rack/console furniture surface,

 

[Pinky]

What are your thoughts on these? I bought them based on user reviews and the video demo they have. I noticed a bit of improvement in my setup.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ISOL8R155

I bought the mediums although I think I should have purchased the large (my right monitor leans a very slight bit), and monitors like yours would require the large due to their weight. I'm suspecting on a long enough timeline I'll come home to find one of my monitors on the floor due to the stand finally collapsing.

I like them enough I'd consider buying the large or a comparable set of stands, so I'm informally looking for something as an eventual upgrade.

 

[garww]

".Best I've heard " is a general observation. I see it all the time. It may be "surprising clarity", or, whatever. I've heard the same from people going from Twins to the SM9 : ) We should expect that, in many respects, as users get into 3-way beasts and better amps.

I noticed that a Mastering studio that once had real top end monitoring is now down to ATC boxes. hahah.

No, there are 17 pages to the thread I felt like addressing. As you know Reference Monitors can be ten times $5k, so there is a realm of standards that can temper a buyers expectations

 

[miroslav]

What are your thoughts on these? I bought them based on user reviews and the video demo they have. I noticed a bit of improvement in my setup.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ISOL8R155

I bought the mediums although I think I should have purchased the large (my right monitor leans a very slight bit), and monitors like yours would require the large due to their weight. I'm suspecting on a long enough timeline I'll come home to find one of my monitors on the floor due to the stand finally collapsing.

I like them enough I'd consider buying the large or a comparable set of stands, so I'm informally looking for something as an eventual upgrade.

TBH...I never bothered to look at all the various monitor stands/pads options because I came up with my own solution, which IMO works better than most of that stuff...the two layers of neoprene rubber with a 1" thick slab of marble stone in-between them is a very effective decoupler/idolator, and being that I have them on top of my side racks...it just worked out very well.

Those iso-stands would have me a bit concerned for larger/heavier speakers. Like these Focal Twins in vertical are quite tall, also very deep about 14"...and they are heavy 31 lbs.
I would not put them up on "stilts"
They feel much more secure on my "sandwich" setup.

 

[Pinky]

They feel much more secure on my "sandwich" setup.

That's what had me asking about your solution. There are sound isolating stands similar to yours available. I'm not allergic to building something myself but marble is not something I come across very often and would probably just buy something prefab.

The stilts are surprisingly strong fwiw, but the one I have set as the taller (right) is the one leaning ever so slightly, so I'm obviously pushing the mediums to their spec limits. Now that I think about it, I might just lower the right and use something else under it to make up the height difference.

 

[RFR]

I have a freind using those with a set of Yamaha HS8s. He loves em. They make me nervous as all hell. Wobbly

A cat in the studio and those look like a disaster in the making.

I know nothing as to any alleged sound benefits 'cause I've never heard a before and after.

For anyone using a console stuff like that is not needed because they're on the meter bridge.

 

[garww]

Marble for looks, but you want granite, or, steel plate to bolt to

 

[miroslav]

As you know Reference Monitors can be ten times $5k, so there is a realm of standards that can temper a buyers expectations

I have no misconceptions about these Focal Twin6 monitors or ANY monitors being the be-all, end-all...and yeah, for most people their "reference" when buying new monitors is their old monitors...so that's what they compare to in order to decide are these new ones "better"...more "clarity"...better "translation"...etc.

If we could all have like a dozen monitors of various quality/price points shipped to us to try in our own studios...then you start to really compare multiple monitors....but I think if you find a new pair that to you is a noticeable improvement over your old pair...hey, that's a big step in the right direction.

To look at $8k-$10k monitors, where even the tiniest nuance is critical, like for mastering....well, you better have a room that is purpose built with all the right angles and treatments, and that is tuned by a pro who knows how.
I mean...hanging a few bass traps in your bedroom isn't going to get you there...so, for the typical home studio, even ones that are really dedicated/treated studio spaces...there is still a limit to how far one needs to go up the monitor quality/price ladder, IMO...and then you're just throwing away money...not in a bad way, you're still buying a high quality item, it's just that setting up a pair of $10k mid/full field wall monitors in a bedroom studio would be kinda dumb.

A funny but common phenomenon...
So over on some of the more "pro" audio sites...if you go back several years when the Focal Twin6 first came out...EVERYONE was loving them and gushing about them.
Then a few years go by and a new brand/model comes on the block, and they all gotta drop some fresh coin and get them, and the Twins and other monitors that were "hot" a few years earlier, are now...not as exciting.
Like right now the big monitor "gotta have" brand in the pro recording world is "Barefoot"...and they are like $5k per monitor, on their lower/smaller end models...and go up from there. The other flavor of the month is Amphion....also very pricey.

So it's more of a "keeping up with the Jones's" thing...because in that pro world, there is a need to impress on many levels...so you have to have the newest, biggest, shiniest....etc....over and over and over.

I'm happy to know that these Focal Twins were hot shit when they came out...and for me, that doesn't change just because there is now other/newer stuff out there. That's also why I didn't think I needed to drop another $2k to get the Trio6.
Sure, they sounded great, but so do the Twins.

 

[miroslav]

...but marble is not something I come across very often ...

About 15 years ago, when my sister was still alive, her and hubby were having their apartment redone...and first she wanted marble...then after it was there, decided to go granite.
So she asks me do I have any use for the marble...and I'm thinking about this huge counter slab, and how the hell would I even get it out of there and haul it over to my place....etc....and then she tells me she could have it cut up to any dimension I wanted.
(The guy who they were getting all their stonework from was a close friend, so that was not a big deal to swap out our cut up).

I asked her to cut it up into 10" x 12" squares...which was the size of my Mackie HR824 monitors....
...and I got a dozen pieces of 1" x10" x12" high-grade white marble....for free.

That's why I used marble for the speaker sandwiches.
Oh...the neoprene rubber is actually from an industrial grade floor-mat...the kind that is very firm, durable, but is slip-free, and makes for easier wear in your feet, so it has a cushy feel under foot, but with the monitor weight, it doesn't really give much.
I got that at work...they bought it for something, and it was the wrong size, so never used and just sat there rolled up... and it almost ended up in the trash one day when they were clearing out the space but I grabbed it just in the nick of time.
Got it home and cut it up as needed....I've used it for a bunch of stuff...including my speaker sandwich stands.

So I re-purposed the marble and the rubber floormat.

 

[Pinky]

For anyone using a console stuff like that is not needed because they're on the meter bridge.

Just to be clear - I was definitely not being critical of miro's setup, I figured he had done his due diligence and the materials he has under his monitors is vastly superior and more stable than the cheap bookshelves mine sit atop.

 

[Pinky]

Oh...the neoprene rubber is actually from an industrial grade floor-mat...the kind that is very firm durable, but is slip-free, and makes for easier wear in your feet.
I got that at work...they bought it for something, and it was the wrong size, so never used and just sat there rolled up... and it almost ended up in the trash one day when they were clearing out the space but I grabbed it just in the nick of time.

So I re-purposed the marble and the rubber floormat.

I was thinking something like a yoga mat cut up would suffice, with a meaty slice between like you're doing with the marble.

 

[RFR]

Yup keping up with the Jones's is a real issue.

I remember when the Equator coaxial monitors came out. They were hyped as the greatest thing and able to compete with much more expensive speakers.

I bought a pair. They are indeed very good monitors.

Yet now, you don't hear a peep about them. No one raves. Does that mean the monitors are no good anymore?
No, I know mastering engineers with gear and ears much better than mine who think they are good.

At this point I think the "gear industry" is probably at an all time high, and "newer better" gear is always pushed on us.

Like the fools and gear junkies some of us are, we fall for it every time.