Studio Expansion! Have 25k to Spend! Help me do it!

[deadsound]

It is time for me to change the layout of my entire studio with new gear! I have 25,000 to invest! I have been awaiting this time for years and I need help getting into the right setup!

MY SETUP AS OF NOW:

Computer: Mac Pro decked out pretty well with cores and RAM
Interface: Apogee Ensamble
DAW: Logic/Abeton/Reason and Pro Tools in 2013
Plus tons of plug ins

I have been running this system since 2012 and invested in Apogee to run with my Mac Book Pro back in 2008. I am getting into a new space, building an iso room and really going balls out with gear.

I share this to tell you all I want to start moving "out of the box."

Here is what I am looking to get:

About 10k in Outboard
One killer Microphone
One controller or analog console: Looking at SSL Nucleus and Toft (both around 5k)
Perhaps analog summing unit like Dangerous, Neve, or something around 2-3k zone

Here is what I need help on:

Right now I think that I am going to have to expand my I/Os. The Apogee only really runs 6 after the Main outs are taken out of the equation. I read several threads over the last week with people talking Apogee expansions dating back to 2009. I am not sure if I am in need on a Apogee 16x or Rosetta unit to add more I/O with Apogee. Obviously if the SSL Nucleus is the way to go I will use that as my interface.... not sure how I feel about not using the Ensamble at all I think it sounds great.

I am in need of 16 I/O. I want to run several outboard gear on tracks. Is the summing route the best way to do this?

I know that being the Apogee is I/O, on paper, that I can not run a summing unit that has more than 8 I/O. This is why I thought it was best to expand I/O and perhaps then invest in 16 channel summing unit. What do you all think?

I guess overall what I am asking, is if you had my setup (computer, ensamble, and a bunch of plug ins) what would you do??

Invest in Analog console and go less on Pres? Go the analog summing route? What would you add to expand I/O section? Keep Ensamble and add to it, or buy another 1-2 units which are better suited for more I/O?

I would really love to hear what you all think. I have been producing for 10 years in the box, and this is the year I make the jump out. I have investors on the line, projects starting in 2013 and I need to do some serious expansion!

 

[CrowsofFritz]

Why do you want an analog console?

I've worked with a Toft for about a year. It's an awesome board! But really, aside from the EQ, I wouldn't really find a great use for it. How do you fare on monitors?

 

[SloppyJo]

For the console/controller have you ever heard of the Allen and Heath GSR-24M? It's more expensive then the Toft and the Nucleus, but it's easily integratable within the digital realm.

I've never used one myself, but after reading up on it it seems like a helluva board. Might be just what you need though! Just thinking about it makes my drool...

 

[jaynm26]

It is time for me to change the layout of my entire studio with new gear! I have 25,000 to invest! I have been awaiting this time for years and I need help getting into the right setup!

1st What do you record deadsound?

About 10k in Outboard

You shouldn't have to spend $10K on a bunch of outboard gear spec this being a software area go for a few solid components and just reuse them. Couple Pre Amps, A Good EQ, and A Good Comp something that is universal, again depends on what you are recording

One killer Microphone

Again depends on what you mostly record

One controller or analog console: Looking at SSL Nucleus and Toft (both around 5k)
Perhaps analog summing unit like Dangerous, Neve, or something around 2-3k zone

Why would you buy any kind of summing device? It would be cumbersome and useless (Im not knocking Neve) but there is no need for summing devices/mixers/boards it is 2013 useless waists of money. Get the Waves NLS Summing plugins For $240 (You have SSL, NEVE & EMI) and save a few thousand.

Right now I think that I am going to have to expand my I/Os. The Apogee only really runs 6 after the Main outs are taken out of the equation. I read several threads over the last week with people talking Apogee expansions dating back to 2009. I am not sure if I am in need on a Apogee 16x or Rosetta unit to add more I/O with Apogee. Obviously if the SSL Nucleus is the way to go I will use that as my interface.... not sure how I feel about not using the Ensamble at all I think it sounds great.

Again no need to get any board of any kind unless your talking of getting a Symphony I/O (which is useless as well) but if your going to attempt to spend $2000 on Rosetta might as well go and get the Symphony. At this point if your not talking of getting the UAD Apollo Then the ensemble is fine it apogee is solid stuff I just bought the Apogee One their stuff is made to last. With no updates for Logic out yet there is no reason to upgrade hardware.

I am in need of 16 I/O. I want to run several outboard gear on tracks. Is the summing route the best way to do this?

It can be, you already have the ensemble. Summing can work if you want. My advice just concentrate on capturing the sound Hi-End Mic, Hi End Pre Amp, all that summing and Outboard gear really can be done with software its alot of work for same quality as some software out there. You might really want to look at the Apollo Deadsound. You spend Thousands for more outboard gear, summing device etc. I spend a couple $100 on some summing plugins and sound just as good as you...Pointless

 

[jaynm26]

Sorry to say age of hardware components of all kinds specially summing/mixer boards are slowly regressing into the stone age.

 

[miroslav]

I don't wanna get into a whole big thing here ....but it ain't all just about software.

Saying $240 worth of Waves SSL, Neve plugs = SSL, Neve hardware....just ain't so.
Yeah, it sounds good, and easy to say that when you ain't got SSL and Neve hardware....but it really isn't the same thing.
I'm not knocking Waves plugs (or any software)...you can get good results with a lot of software.

And yeah, this is "home recording" and all that...I know that argument too, and I can agree that there's no need for a lot of home-rec folks to go out and drop big $$$ on gear they will never fully appreciate in their SOP, but still...all software doesn't trump all hardware on which it was modeled.

Not to mention....for some, hardware can be more fun to work with. I'll take a real console over a software mixer...any day.

 

[jaynm26]

Did I say they sound the same?? Did he say he was goning to buy a Never Console and I said plugins sound better or match did I say that? No. Oh but I get it its better to go spend $100,000 on a SSL board, thats right. if anyone thinks a plugin can "REALLY" 100% match hardware I never said that. But what you spend in a few $1000 can be achieved by $100 plugin. People get on my nerves with this crap of plugins cant match hardware... DUGGGGHHHHH!!! I own hardware plenty and slowly becoming expensive paper weights. Be surprised how many studios are doing away with consoles as we speak cause they found a work around thats alot easier.

 

[miroslav]

People get on my nerves with this crap of plugins cant match hardware... DUGGGGHHHHH!!!

Not as much as the people who say "you can do it all with just a few hundered $$$ in software" get on my nerves.

I own hardware plenty and slowly becoming expensive paper weights. Be surprised how many studios are doing away with consoles as we speak cause they found a work around thats alot easier.

Put it up on eBay....I'm buyin' decent hardware that needs a good home where it won't get neglected in favor of a mouse and some plugs.

 

[jaynm26]

Not as much as the people who say "you can do it all with just a few hundered $$$ in software" get on my nerves.

THATS CAUSE YOU CAN, you can mix a whole albums with no hardware at all and get a really good sound. No one said anything bout beating a SSL or Neve with a plugin your taking my statements wayyy outta context. You can get nice sounds with plugins without hardware it is possible. If the only way you can get good sound is by hardware then your in the wrong business. I have done several mixes on several SSL's boards and I have spent alot of time trying to match the board with just software alot of my mixes that I did get to match you cant even tell, some would say they were even better (of course I had to alot of processing and use alot of DSP to get the sound to even come close) but thats what being an engineer is all about.

 

[miroslav]

...you can mix a whole albums with no hardware at all and get a really good sound.

I didn't say you couldn't mix an album with software....I was just saying that a few hundred $$$ in software doesn't necessarily *replace* the hardware it's trying to model.

No one said anything bout beating a SSL or Neve with a plugin your taking my statements wayyy outta context.

Well...you seem to suggest it when you said it's 2013 and that buying hardware is a waste of money.
I already said I wasn't knocking software...I use plenty of it alongside hardware, but there's nothing wrong/bad about using hardware, and in some cases it certainly blows the software out of the water...depending on how much you want to spend.

If the only way you can get good sound is by hardware then your in the wrong business.

Where did I say that?

I have done several mixes on several SSL's boards and I have spent alot of time trying to match the board with just software alot of my mixes that I did get to match you cant even tell, some would say they were even better (of course I had to alot of processing and use alot of DSP to get the sound to even come close) but thats what being an engineer is all about.

Not sure what you are saying here...."a lot of processing and a lot of DSP to get the sound to even come close"...?
What's that got to do with being an engineer?
I would say the best engineers can get a good sound with the least amount of processing (not that there's anything wrong with using processing).
If anything, you are supporting my position....that you had to work hard and use a lot of software to even come close to the hardware SSL mix.

Maybe you can post up the SSL hardware mixes and your software processed mixes for comparison...?

Again....I got nothing against software, I just don't agree that good hardware is obsolete. If that was the case, the manufacturer's would be going out of business, but if anything, there's a hardware boom...just check all the audio magazines. I've never seen so much *new* hardware being manufactured like there is today.

Happy 2013!

 

[CrowsofFritz]

Back to the OP, I never heard back. I want to know his monitoring chain, as he never addressed it.

And regarding the mixers, I just want to know why he wants to use it. The pres on a Toft certainly aren't stellar. The EQ is pretty good. Is he going to take full advantage of inserts and auxes? If he just likes having his hands on a mixer as it would shorten the work, then I would say that's a fine reason for having one.

 

[RollTape]

No plug-in will ever match a good piece of vintage Class A hardware,...tube driven or otherwise.Consider a used iZ Technonlogy Radar 24,quality analog or digital console,a few top end mics,multi-band spatial enhancer(Bob Katz K-Stereo Ambience Recovery box,Aphex,BBE,Behringer,etc.),TC elcectronics Finalizer & Waves L2 Limiter for mastering.Round it out with other quality processors and effects hardware and presto!,...it will sound like you recorded on 2" analog tape with a polished sound so shiny your ears will have to wear sunglasses.

 

[CrowsofFritz]

No plug-in will ever match a good piece of vintage Class A hardware,...tube driven or otherwise.Consider a used iZ Technonlogy Radar 24,quality analog or digital console,a few top end mics,multi-band spatial enhancer(Bob Katz K-Stereo Ambience Recovery box,Aphex,BBE,Behringer,etc.),TC elcectronics Finalizer & Waves L2 Limiter for mastering.Round it out with other quality processors and effects hardware and presto!,...it will sound like you recorded on 2" analog tape with a polished sound so shiny your ears will have to wear sunglasses.

....What?


No, it will never match it 100%, but it will come pretty damn close. The price difference makes up the last few percentage points.