Studio equipment list...

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006productions

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Ok, I'm trying to get a compiled list of gear and costs so that I can apply for a business loan and hopefully be approved. I want to build my own studio here in Texas capable of doing great production quality for bands that want to do anything from a quick little 3/6 song demo to a full-out album. Here's the list:

DAW:
Dual 2.8gHz cpu w/800mHz FSB ea
1GB RAM
1x Glyph 80GB SATA drive
1x Glyph 200GB SATA drive
1x DVD +/- RW drive
3x PCI, 1x PCI-E, 1x PCI-E 16x slots
2x FireWire 400 port
7x USB 2.0 port

3x M-Audio Delta 1010 (PCI interfaces)

Software:
Sony Vegas 6.0
Waves Platinum Native Bundle

Monitoring:
2x Event Tuned Reference 8" (for abusing, tracking monitors)
2x Mackie HR824A (for demo mixes)
2x ADAM Audio P22-A (for album mixes)
7x Sennheiser HD280Pro headphones
Furman HDS-6 6ch headphone distro
2x Furman HR-6 ethernet headphone mix station (drummer, vocalist)
Mackie HM54 4ch headphone distro (everyone else :P)
Mackie Big Knob (monitor control/switching)

Dynamics/mic pre:
Focusrite Liquid Channel
3x PreSonus DigiMax LT
Focusrite Compounder
2x Drawmer Six-Pack (comp/lim/gate/expander for drums)
M-Audio TAMPA (amazing direct bass)

Mics:
Neumann TLM103 (vocal mic)
5x Shure SM57 (guitars, snare, extras)
2x Shure KSM32 (overhead mics)
2x Sennheiser e906 (tom mics)
2x Sennheiser e904 (tom mics)
Sennheiser e609 (guitar mic)
Shure Beta 52 (kick drum mic)
Rode NT2-A (vocal/ambience mic)
Rode NT5 matched pair (acoustic guitars, ride cymbal mic)

Other stuff:
Mackie Control Universal (DAW controller)
dbx 48 point patch bay

Now the PreSonus DigiMax LT supposedly beats out the Focusrite OctoPre for EVERYTHING, so I wanted one of those pres for every channel that my 1010's have, 24 channels. Besides, you can't daisy-chain the OctoPre's with ADAT like the LT's. The 1010's have S/PDIF in, so I'm going to have 26 total channels. I think that is plenty to start off with. I want to be able to record an entire band all at once, I think this is plenty of I/O to do that with. The TAMPA is S/PDIF, which is great. Plus I have a PODxt Pro which I have some very great sounding patches that I can run S/PDIF into one of the Deltas...in case I run out of mics somehow :P Mic stands I'll have to get here in town, gotta see them in person to judge quality, so I'm budgeting some money for that already. Cables as well...I have to wait to measure the building to see what I'll need. Budgeted in too.

So what do you think? Tell me where I can save money and lose very little or no quality in ANYTHING. I'm open to anything really. The more I save on gear, the better. I'm at like $30k or so for equipment...thats a lot. I might have to compile a smaller and cheaper list to start with until I start making the money to upgrade everything...Anyway, toss everything in! Thanks in advance.
 
I don't know why you would get one pair of monitors for mixing demos and a different pair for mixing albums. If you want to test the way a mix sounds on different monitors, then that's one thing. But, to not use the ADAM monitors just because it's not a full-length cd doesn't make much sense to me. And I know that the Liquid Channel is supposed to be able to emulate lots of mic pres, so you may be able to have more versatile sounds, but I think you could do much better for that amount of money. I personally like my TLM103, but there are also other mics in that price range that you may want to take a look at before committing. As well as all of the other mics on your list, make sure that you do lots of research before committing. And I think that the Tampa is definitely a good choice for the money. Of course, everything above is just my opinion, so, you can take it or leave it. Good Luck.
 
What about a motu 24i for inputs rather than 3x delta, might be less hassel (might not!)
 
Well, I never saw that before. But after looking at it, I think it would be a great interface. It takes ONE (1) PCI slot, correct? I can't really tell from the description. I like how it has the level metering on the front, reminds me of the ProTools HD systems I worked with at the old studio. I liked that. Are the A/D converters on the MOTU a significant increase in quality compared to the Delta 1010's? Since it's only like $200 more for ONE of these, rather than THREE 1010's, I think it's a better choice. Besides my original interface was going to be an 828mkII from MOTU, but that was for a project studio, I want to do a full-out studio. So, one PCI slot, or no? Thanks for showing me that.

The monitor situation. Well, I guess you are right about that, I mean there's no point in having two pairs of good monitors and devoting one pair to one price range of recording and the other pair to the other price range. I think I'll just get the Mackies at first. Good Point. Saved me some money there! I think my problem is I want to have too much stuff, as in, more than I really need. But I convince myself sometimes that I do need that extra set of whatever. Even if I don't. Thanks for pointing that out.
 
Also, what do you recommend as far as mic pre's for vocals? I thought the Liquid Channel would be great to have since it has all of those emulations in one unit. I don't really like the price tag, but for what you get, and the reviews it gets, I was under the impression that it was worth it.

I really would like to have a Focusrite Red series or an ISA series. I used an Avalon 737 at the old studio for vocals, and I loved it. It's a much less pricey preamp and I have worked with it so I know what to expect...better choice or no?

Recommendations for a good vocal mic? Something that will do well for any kind of music. Thanks in advance.
 
The motu stuff can be bought with or without a card.

The 324 card has three ports (meaning three rackmount interfaces) and the 424 has four ports, allowing for four rackmount interfaces.

Rackmount interfaces can be many different things, the 24I is just one choice.
 
Willybomb said:
What about a motu 24i for inputs rather than 3x delta, might be less hassel (might not!)
Click to expand...
the motu 24 i/o is great but the inputs/outputs are so close together that the new fatter 1/4 cables dont squish in there well. not a big deal but something to consider.the other thing is that if your using, say, sonar you may have to constantly reassign inputs etc. as the motu doesnt map with sonar the same everytime. if you are switching those around a lot that could be a pain unless you dedicate them.
im thinking of getting the motu 24 i/o also and im using sonar5.0 which i think is great.
good luck man.
 
Oh, well I will be using Vegas. Its what we use at the studio I work at, and I'm really comfortable in that program. I use to have a ProTools LE setup at home, and I was using ProTools HD at the other studio I worked at, so I'm use to that as well..it's just thats too much money for me to start with.

Frederik, I found that out last night, but what I'm asking is, the 424 card, it is just ONE pci card right? As in, it will only take up one PCI slot on my motherboard, and it has ports on the outside of it (from the back of the case), to connect up to 4 of MOTU's units, correct?

Also, does anyone have any mic suggestions? I think I have a pretty good collection of mics there to start with...I'm going to check around for a cheaper mic preamp for vocals since the Liquid Channel has been getting some bad reviews on some forums. I found a post where a guy recorded his bands demo using the LC for vocals, and he was disappointed because it sounded thin, no matter what he did to fix it. The guy is a really good engineer, I have heard a ton of his work and it's all really good. I'm off to browse around SweetWater some more...
 
core said:
say, sonar you may have to constantly reassign inputs etc. as the motu doesnt map with sonar the same everytime. if you are switching those around a lot that could be a pain unless you dedicate them.
Click to expand...

Really? I have a pair of 2408's and they line up correctly every time, without fail.
 
Advice...

This is strictly my opinion. If you are going to be taking out an extensive loan for this stuff i would look into some better equipment and think about tracking a whole band at once with around 16 tracks. Most of the mics and pres you have listed are PAR. They will work but there definitley better sounding pre's and mics out there that will make work easier and also keep you in the game without upgrading for a while.

IMO: 8 good pres are better than 24 par pres.

8 good mics are better than 16 par mics.

Just my 2cents. I think you will be wasting alot of money.
 
Eric54 said:
This is strictly my opinion. If you are going to be taking out an extensive loan for this stuff i would look into some better equipment and think about tracking a whole band at once with around 16 tracks. Most of the mics and pres you have listed are PAR. They will work but there definitley better sounding pre's and mics out there that will make work easier and also keep you in the game without upgrading for a while.

IMO: 8 good pres are better than 24 par pres.

8 good mics are better than 16 par mics.

Just my 2cents. I think you will be wasting alot of money.
Click to expand...


Well said. I think most people will agree on this. I'm really thinking that having over 16 for you would be completely useless unless you are thinking of having multiple rooms that run of a completely new set of tracks. I've your gonna have 3 iso booths that need their own dedicated 8 tracks then 24 may be a better idea, but most get around more than fine with 16. I'm going to be running 16 in about a month, and I think I'll stay that way for a while, more just complicates me and studio flow is one of my main points. Oh yes and don't go out buying tons of ok equip. I will take you the next year to realize that you have sold it all and invested an other 15k in mics alone because you just learned how to use all the old ones. Once again just my opinion.

Ben
 
Couple of other things I noticed. You have x7 sets of HD280 headphones, I'm assuming you're planning on giving these out to the musicians right? I would NOT use such nice headphones because they'll get abused and broken. Get something cheap like these: http://www.itrstudio.com/moreme.html , and if they break you won't be out a lot of money (plus the guy that sells them couldn't be a nicer guy)

I'm also wondering why you chose the 1010's. They do NOT have ADAT lightpipe I/O correct? You're kinda wasting your money on a 8ch preamp that does conversions like the digimax, if you're just going to into the analog in's. Also, if you decide later to get a nice 8ch A/D converter you won't have anywhere to input it. I'd get an interface with more digital I/O that'll let you use the digimax converters and expand later to higher end conversion.

Your monitoring seems a little too upscale and is a lopsided when compared to your input chain. You can probably do a whole band with the mics listed, but you wouldn't be very flexible. I dunno, I'm a firm believer of mics making the most difference in a recording, and you can't have enough flavors. I would get at least an alternative set of SDC's, maybe a couple different LDC's, maybe a ribbon (the Nady/Shinybox/Aphex ones are surprisingly good) and a nicer alternative snare mic like a Beyer M201

You probably have way too many channels of outboard compression. Are you really going to use that much compression on the way in?

Don't forget about mic stands, misc cables, power conditioners/strips, rack cases, pop filters, etc, etc. That shit never makes it on a budget but will seriously nickel and dime you to death.
 
1k for new cables sure makes it on my budget.

Also you really need to think about room treatment more. Have all the great equipment you want, but the first step should really be room treatment. Wait 'til you find out what your working with, because your gonna be happy later when you build non parallel walls, if you do...

Ben
 
Here's an updated list after talking to a bunch of people. I've cut my cost down a lot. And honestly, we don't use anything "stellar" at the studio I work at and because we know what we're doing, we blow the competition out of the water every single session. I'm talking about the other studios in town that use the expensive stuff, API pres, $10k and up mic collections, Focusrite Red and ISA series rack pre's, comps, and eq's, Genelec monitors, I mean...pro studios. And we have better production.

As far as I'm concerned, a lot of the time it's how you use it, not what you use. When we can have a $3000 mic collection, and blow those studios out of the water with Focusrite and Mackie analog solid state preamps...I mean...this is a substantially higher quality collection of equipment than I'm using now at this studio. And if I can do what I do now with this stuff...if I can get this stuff, I'll be set. And I am aiming for a state grant for small business. Right now Texas is actually hurting in this area for GOOD quality studios. I have the ability to provide a great competitive service. I would definitely flourish here. I just need the grant(s) which they are seriously willing to give out, that is if I have a serious business plan and everything. Here's the new list:

-Custom built PC (rackmount)
-ETA System PD series power conditioning/surge protection (3 of these, 18 power plugs needed)
-MOTU 24 i/o interface
-Focusrite OctoPre LE (3 of these, they have TRS line output)
-Reamp
-Sony Vegas 6.0
-Drumagog
-Waves Platinum Native bundle
-Mackie Control Universal (DAW control surface)
-Mackie Big Knob
-Line6 PODxt Pro
-Mackie HR824a (mixing only)
-Event Tuned Reference 8" active (for abuse/tracking only)
-Sennheiser HD280Pro headphones (7 of these)
-Furman HDS-6 headphone distro
-Furman HR-6 headphone mix station (2 of these, drummers and vocalists are picky)
-Mackie HM54 headphone distro (for everyone else)
-Neumann TLM103
-Shure SM57 (4 of these, guitar, snare mic'ing, etc.)
-Audix i5 (guitars)
-Shure Beta52
-Sennheiser e609 (1, guitars)
-Sennheiser e906 (guitar/tom mic)
-Sennheiser e904 (4, with clamps, tom mics)
-Shure KSM32 (2, overheads)
-Rode NT2-A
-Rode NT5 matched pair (acoustic guitars/ride/hats)
-DDrum RedShot kick drum trigger
-Drawmer Six-Pack (2, for drum comp/gate/lim)
-Avalon VT737-sp (for vocals only)
-M-Audio TAMPA (for direct bass, it's awesome trust me)
-Focusrite Compounder (for fun)
-dbx passive 48pt patch bay (3 of these, fun routing options :P)
 
Just curious - how will you deal with latency for live monitoring during tracking? Maybe you can get a pc fast enough so it's not an issue and I'm no expert, but I'm imagining tracking 16 simultaneous tracks and the singer wanting to hear some reverb. Or, you have a song nearly mixed with tons of plugs running and decide you want to add one more vocal or guitar part - now you have annoying latency times.

I began running a parallel input path just for live monitoring because the older computers had long latency times. I've upgraded my pc to the latest beast, but kept the monitoring scheme because I'm used to it.
 
Just a thought....

How are you planning on using the drawmer compressors? None of the pres you have have chosen have insert points.

PhiloBeddoe also brought up a good point about latency when recording that many tracks.

What is the current studio you are working at and what kind of setup are you working with? Do you have links to artists you have engineered?
 
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