STRUGGLE WITH MELODY !!! grr

[Frankie Rage]

Maybe, but..

Just because an orchestra is playing it, and it's "complex" doesn't make it "good". There is plenty of mediocre so-called "Classical Music". A lot of it seems to have been written just to "show off" the technique of the performers. You might even call some of it, musical masturbation..

But there is mediocre everywhere. When you switch on your radio to a hip-hop channel you are going to hear some mediocre music mixed in with a few really "good" tracks. I'm saying that the same applies when you flip over to a classical station.

["New Age" ...what a daft name! ]

About theory. I'm not against studying it. And it would be at least faintly ridiculous to say you don't need to know ANY theory to play music. You could be given a guitar, work out your own tuning and play music sure, but in reality you wouldn't do that. You'd get a book that would teach you at least a few things, and theory has helped us all, surely?

But I liken music theory to English Grammar. You may study grammar and become an expert, but alone it won't make you a good writer. In fact, you don't need a lot of grammar to be a good writer and you don't need a lot of theory to be a good musician. But it will help and it won't hurt, so no need to knock it ...but perhaps don't make it a religion.

To the guy who started this thread... written any tunes yet? We're waiting...

 

[formant74]

Actually, I have no kind of formal or informal training, be it class or books. It probably shows in my music. I've tried to learn to read music but it's all "greek" to me. Everything I play is by ear or what is in my head, to include guitar. I have NO idea what I'm playing or what key it's in.

My grandmother, who was a published singer/ songwriter, hated watching me play because I was all over the piano. She said what I was playing, according to music theory, is not supposed to go together. Oh well, it sounded good to me.

 

[Frankie Rage]

I don't think it matters whether you have any formal training or not, depending on what you are trying to achieve.

I recall producing a demo for a fairly famous UK band who I wanted to record my song. Before getting to the band I had to get through various layers of intermediaries. One of them pointed out that the piano "chords" I was playing in the demo "weren't proper chords" (whatever that means) anyway, the demo didn't get past that level of intermediary, and I failed to get it to the band.

Maybe if I had been playing "proper" chords I would have faired better?

Postscript. The bands next single flopped and they split up. My song was better (only my opinion though..) so anyway, poop to them!

 

[Hakea]

Actually, I have no kind of formal or informal training, be it class or books.

Impossible.

We all been trained, whether we admit it or not. There's a crucially important third method that you're not acknowledging.

Some have a teacher sitting in the room with them (whether it's trained teacher or a friend with something to share) , others use teachers who wrote books, but all of us have used the 'ear training' that you get simply by listening to music.

Not only does listening to lots of music (which all the so called 'naturals' do) help form preferences for general styles of music it also builds in a feel for the way Western music works and what we think sounds 'good'. In other words you start to understand some of the logic and structure of melody, rhythm and harmony - you just don't have the words to describe it, or the theoretical knowledge to explain it. You can certainly get by without those assets, but I've never found knowledge to be constricting.

If you'd been brought up in - for example - India or Indonesia, you would have a feel for a different musical structure. We use 12 defined pitches, they use many more. They also use different rhythmic and harmonic logic.

I had 58 years of informal training (by listening) before I picked up either a guitar or a theory book. That basic 'ear training' has been a priceless asset. But so has the theory I'm learning now. To name just two advantages - it speeds things up for me, and it shows me many possibilities that I wouldn't have discovered by accident. People with no theory often seem to think that it will tell you what to do, and put you in rut. I think the opposite is probably even more likely to be true - people with no understanding of what they're doing can simply end up repeating the things they find to work, with only minor variations.

I read an interview once with a guy from the recording industry talking about a well known band, when they first approached the label. The band told him they had "200 songs written already". The guy listened and had to break it to them that they had really only written one song - they'd just done it 200 times.... He could see how samey it all was,but at that point they couldn't.

Cheers,

Chris

 

[Frankie Rage]

I think informal training by listening is the really powerful one.

I had some formal music training as a child of 7 or 8. OK no problem for me either way, but it didn't fill me with the wonder that listening to music did.

Since then I've had about 40 years of listening and playing before coming full circle and looking at some theory again!

Anyway, it's all good!

 

[Hakea]

Anyway, it's all good!

That's it!

It's not a conflict or a contest, it's just a matter of using whatever tools that suit you best, and that you can grab for your toolkit.

I was put off playing (and theory) for over 40 years by some dire and dreadful compulsory piano lessons as a kid. Back then 'theory' sounded like yet another nasty chore that would make a lot of demands and generally give me a hard time. But now it seems very different - as a great tool, and an efficient way to tap into the wisdom and experience of thousands of years of experimentation by other musicians. To me, now, that feels like a great opportunity, and a time saving free gift, not like some kind of hassle. I try to pass that feeling on whenever I can, but sometimes it will spark up some interest, sometimes it won't...

Cheers,

Chris

 

[formant74]

Is Christopher xo even reading this anymore?

 

[Frankie Rage]

He's probably cowering in a corner somewhere!

 

[Hakea]

Maybe his blockage cleared and he's busy cranking out hits....

 

[Frankie Rage]

Well, I firmly believe we've all got one hit song somewhere up our sleeves..

 

[formant74]

I wouldn't say it was a "hit song" but I did write a country song a few years back and won $200 in a talent contest. So I guess I can say I'm an award winning songwriter and not be lying.

 

[SEDstar]

...

I, for one, have "no pride about it", and consider ANYtime you entertain someone, you've accompished the goal. I once spent some time "ripping" MIDI's of uber-popular songs and (re)writing funny, sarcastic, or political lyrics to go with it...

prolly my best was my rendition of "let it be"...

"and in my elections hour of darkness, greasy lawyers come to me, special groups of interest, SIG.... S.I.G... L.I.E.... S.I G.... L.I E... Mother cheney pulls my strings, S.I.G..."

My basic idea was that on a local city radio station, I hear a lot of funny songs, I thought I could maybe get one played if it was funny enough. When your funny song is FUNNY enough, and people p!$$ their pants laughing, they will quickly overlook small production values...

*shrugs* the mere intent of your "creation" can just be to make someone laugh... hey, your getting in touch with an "emotion", its universal the need to laugh, and NOTHING gets the crowd up on its feet laughing and singing along like their favorite funny ditty.

I dont know HOW that part is "in me", as the other half wants to make a classical/progressive kind of track... *shrugs*

 

[icystorm]

Hey everyone.

I have a huge problrem when it comes to making up melodies !
I think it's just this mental block that I have and I want to get rid of it !!

ANY Tips ???

I think the so-called "mental blocks" happen from time to time. I have to be in the mood and right spirit to write. When I am in that "creative place" everything just comes together very easily. When other things are on my mind, I cannot write and it becomes a struggle to try.

My best ideas (not to be confused with legitimate, good ideas, mind you!) come when I least expect them.

Anyway, I share your pain! I am having trouble with a song right now. The last five or six songs that I wrote came very easily to me, but the one I am working on now is seemingly at an impasse. Amusingly, the music for the chorus and bridge came very quickly and I was excited and inspired by the results, but when I began working on the verse and the release section, the results were terrible. I tried several things, and nothing seemed to take the song in the direction I wanted it to go in, so I elected to stop for a while. I'll come back to it later -- and surely fresher!! The answer may hit me as I'm falling asleep or driving around one day.

So, my perspective on the "mental block" you asked about is not to push it and never worry about it and make the problem bigger than it is on your mind.

Others here have far more experience and real expertise, so they may be able to offer better advice.

Good luck!

Cheers,
Joseph