STRUGGLE WITH MELODY !!! grr

  • Thread starter Thread starter Christopher_xo
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Hey everyone.

I have a huge problrem when it comes to making up melodies !
I think it's just this mental block that I have and I want to get rid of it !!

ANY Tips ???


Hi,

Please excuse the long answer...:eek:

Firstly, I was amused by dementedchord's response - and it's a fine line for provoking discussion - but I think it's well wide of the mark. Sure, it's kinda lame to simply pinch somebody else's melody holus-bolus, but that's not what it's about. It's really about studying what works and how it works, and then using the info.


I say this on the basis that it’s been an integral part of traditional music studies for centuries to examine the work of previous masters (or even nursery rhymes for that matter) to help understand how and why certain effects can be created and developed. It’s part and parcel of learning your craft. You can learn an enormous amount of useful information about the basic mechanics of writing by looking at how (for instance) various combinations of intervals and rhythms can be used to different effect. It’s an extremely useful exercise to take an existing order of pitches, work out the voodoo of it all, and then see how far away from the original feel you can take them just by altering the timing, touch, tempo etc. Or you can choose to keep the same internal timing logic and make changes to the note order, and thus the structure of intervals. And so on... You can hobble your ‘art’ if you don’t yet have the tools of the ‘craft’ at your disposal.

There are many variations on the theme of learning your basic craft by studying the examples of others, picking them apart to help equip yourself with a kit of tools, and then use them to create something new and personal. For instance, I have no training whatever in building houses but I wanted to fulfill a long-standing dream to design and build my own home. I had the opportunity to help demolish a couple of houses that were built using a similar timber framed construction. I paid close attention whilst I pulled them apart, and learned a huge amount of useful information. Later, I was able to put much of that to use when I did indeed design and build my own house - which conforms to the building code regarding structural requirements, yet is still completely unique, both in its character and execution. I try and do the same with music. Classical composers such as as Mozart and Bach did much the same. These guys were no slouches at coming up with their own melodies, yet were also happy to acknowledge their debt to others, in some cases quite directly. (e.g. Brahms’s “Variations on a Theme of Haydn”).

I’ve seen a somewhat similar idea expressed on music forums - such as versions of “I don’t want to learn music theory because it might stunt my creativity”. :D Often it seems to be trotted out by beginners who didn’t seem to have much actual creativity (or playing ability yet) to blunt. But they did feel overwhelmed and put off by the apparent demanding precision and general “bossiness” of theory books (which is pretty much an illusion once you start to understand it - I see theory as “Tools not Rules”.)


But back to writing melodies....


As mentioned, I see nothing wrong with taking elements of existing themes, tunes, runs or riffs and using some of the structural strategies to help rebuild something completely different. One way or another you will need to learn something about your craft before you can produce much in the way of art. You can do it by studying theory. You can do it sub-consciously by listening to a lot of music and getting an inbuilt feel for what you think works (even if you don’t know why). You can do it by regular and persistent experimentation. Or you can do it by combining all of those ideas and more (which to varying degrees is what most of us do). But simply waiting for inspirational genius to strike is a known low percentage option. :rolleyes:


Here are some other ideas:


1. Noodling. I just love noodling. Pick a bunch of notes and just mess around with them and see what I can create. As others have mentioned, there’s a perceived trap with falling into familiar patterns and not trying new things. This seems to me to be a limitation of the individual player rather than the method, but nevertheless I get the point. If you’re not a very adventurous type then you may well keep falling into ‘safe’ or familiar patterns. The alternative can also be true though - some people find it hard to stick to designated paths and have to struggle NOT to keep wandering off in new directions. Fortunately, I have more than one instrument and swapping from one to the other seems to break any possible patterns just fine. I have acoustic and electric guitars and they require different techniques and make different sounds, all of which can lead me in a variety of directions. I can also swap to piano, arranger keyboard, clarinet, sax or banjo if I want a change of mindset.

2. Generate a random sequence and then edit it. I saw a clip recently of a pianist/composer who had the audience pull discs from a bag, with note names on. He laid them out in the order they were drawn and then played a tune using the result. Some parts worked better than others, but he could have then taken the bits that looked interesting and used them in any way he chose.

3. Lay down a rhythm track first. Obviously, rhythm makes a huge difference to a song, so why not work on that first? I have a drum kit and a drum machine handy, but there are also many ways of creating drums track in software (or even just clapping something out ) so getting a basic groove down first is not much of a technical problem. It won’t restrict what key you play in, although it might suggest a favourite or two, depending on the rhythm. Then take your instrument and play around with your bunch of notes and see what flies.

4. Start with some lyrics. I belong to another forum where they set a weekly songwriting challenge. Most of the lyrics submitted are pretty dire, and one reason is that few of the would-be ‘composers’ have a grasp on how to match the punch and feel of the words to the pulse and drive of any real music. So they often just write bad poetry and think it’s lyrics. Few actually submit any music. So there’s another angle - either write some words, or take a line or two from another source - and try and set them to music. See how successfully you can enhance the impact of the words - in the right place and time - with an appropriate piece of music. Find out what makes it work - how to handle interval jumps and runs up and down, what effect does changing the timing have, etc?? What works cooperatively with the words and what doesn't.

4. Learn more about what makes a good melody. Generally speaking this includes things like creating and releasing tension, movement, and repetition (particularly repetition coupled with variation) and so on. Even if you can't read music you can learn a few lessons just by looking carefully at scores and seeing how the music flows up and down, how the timing changes, how big or small the gaps up and down are, etc. The composer should also have some idea of what the journey is about, where it’s going to take the listener, what moods it’s seeking to create, and what emotional story it’s trying to tell along the way. It's when you sit there with nothing at all in place that it can be hard - no idea of what you're trying to write, no story, time signature, key, rhythm, etc and not much in your kit of tools to tell you how to achieve any effects if they do occur to you. But sometimes that can be exciting too... ;)

Just a few ideas off the top of my head. I’m sure there’s many other approaches, and I’ve doubtless missed some good ones. But I think it still really boils down to putting in the time and learning the craft.

Good luck.

Chris
 
Dont mess around...

My meaning is as simple as it could be...

Take your instrument, if it is guitar-keyboard, whatever.
And play around for fun, not to NEED to - have to LIKE to...
And in the same minute you find something that you think is sounding nice, put it into your Cubase, Pro Tools etc...
And then the writing really begin, find drums, bass and so on that fits to this song.

OR - if your in the lyrics mode, start with the theme you want to write about.
And try diff. endings to make it more interesting and not to simple.
Deside if it is a Ballad, Trans, Blues, Heavy, and what you want to come out of this words. What you want people to remember after listen.

// Hope it helps
// Regards to you all taking time to help other - :D
 
It's really about studying what works and how it works, and then using the info.

I say this on the basis that it’s been an integral part of traditional music studies for centuries to examine the work of previous masters (or even nursery rhymes for that matter) to help understand how and why certain effects can be created and developed.

There are many variations on the theme of learning your basic craft by studying the examples of others, picking them apart to help equip yourself with a kit of tools, and then use them to create something new and personal.


Classical composers such as as Mozart and Bach did much the same. These guys were no slouches at coming up with their own melodies, yet were also happy to acknowledge their debt to others, in some cases quite directly. (e.g. Brahms’s “Variations on a Theme of Haydn”).

I’ve seen a somewhat similar idea expressed on music forums - such as versions of “I don’t want to learn music theory because it might stunt my creativity”.

- I see theory as “Tools not Rules”


But back to writing melodies....



4. Learn more about what makes a good melody. Generally speaking this includes things like creating and releasing tension, movement, and repetition (particularly repetition coupled with variation) and so on. Even if you can't read music you can learn a few lessons just by looking carefully at scores and seeing how the music flows up and down, how the timing changes, how big or small the gaps up and down are, etc.


The composer should also have some idea of what the journey is about, where it’s going to take the listener, what moods it’s seeking to create, and what emotional story it’s trying to tell along the way. It's when you sit there with nothing at all in place that it can be hard - no idea of what you're trying to write, no story, time signature, key, rhythm, etc and not much in your kit of tools to tell you how to achieve any effects if they do occur to you. But sometimes that can be exciting too... ;)

Chris


if this post is any indication you will be a valuable addition to the forum... welcome... and i should have waited to rep you... it wont show up for awhile...


off the mark??? i say which mark???

the first quotes from you make one of my central points... learning from whats been done before and making hommage to a master... as opposed to "lifting" a melody or progression... the differences are not subtle....

as to the theory study... i prefer to compare it to learning any other language... and it is a language... hate to misquote but cant remember if it's stravinski or debusssy that said "music speaks a language to specific for words" in other words it goes straight to the emotion as opposed to needing to filter through discriptions of earlier/similar experiences... so the central question becomes do you want to speak "french" or merely sound french to those that dont know???

i found your fourth idea on point... though i'll need to think abit more on the last part of it... does the composer need to have a predefined idea of direction?? i've struggled with that personally... but tend towards stravinski's perception... he viewed composition as an exclusionary process... absolutely anything can come next... but i eliminate all but this one idea...
 
Good stuff on here. Well, for me, I play a lot by ear. In fact, I only play by ear. Okay, you know my history.. I can't read music and I don't have a background in theory. Having said that, an approach that has helped me (and may not be the right method for you) is to take a film score that I liked from a movie, and recontextualize it into my songs with some variations to it.

For example, let's say you like the music from an old Italian drama, you would play that score with your guitar instead. Switch the notes around a bit, and don't copy it exactly like how it is in the movie haha. Then use the melody from a completely different movie that you like, and use that for the chorus. Combine a couple of films into your song. Or just use one movie influence if that is all you need. Don't just stop at films.. use everything! Listen to your squeaky tires, the hum of an electric shaver, etc. Practice "hearing" the world around you. Oh, and don't use mainstream movies that everyone knows. Use the old, obscure foreign films. Any old foreign films. They tend to be very emotional and have a lot of drama in them for some reason lol. With youtube these days, you can find clips here and there to take from. I hope this helps.

-Byron
 
as to the theory study... i prefer to compare it to learning any other language... and it is a language... hate to misquote but cant remember if it's stravinski or debusssy that said "music speaks a language to specific for words"

The analogy to a language is a good one, and we can extend it a bit further using Hakea's points here: "Learn more about what makes a good melody. Generally speaking this includes things like creating and releasing tension, movement, and repetition (particularly repetition coupled with variation) and so on."

We all know when we read a good story . . . you know, where you can't put the book down. We all have experiences of bad stories . . . maybe the idea is good, but the writing is pedestrian, dreary and unimaginative. The same elements that make a good story also make a good song, and by examining what writers do to create interest and engagement, we may be able to translate that into a musical expression.

But the key, in my view, is having something to write about. I can remember having to write 'compositions' in primary school . . . and sitting blankly there, chewing the end of a pencil, daydreaming while staring out the window, listening to the squeak squeak of someone on a swing . . . and nothing but a accusatory white page staring at me. I just had no ideas at all, not realising that my lack of ideas was itself an idea worth writing about!

It is useful to have "some idea of what the journey is about", because that can help marshall some errant thoughts into a coherent shape . . . but it is also useful not to tie yourself to the original journey too much, because once started, your footsteps may carry you in surprising and unexpected directions.

As an illustration of this, some musical mates and I get together to record covers of obscure B sides and other songs that strike our fancy. Sometimes we create totally new arrangements, sometimes we just try to reproduce the original as best as we can. So that's the intended journey: faithful reproduction. But we know that in trying this, we will add our own infuences, abilities and tastes, and that in this attempt of reproduction, we won't get a replica . . . we will get something else . . . and that's the exciting bit . . . because we're never quite sure how it will turn out, even though we know the putative intended result.

So . . . when trying to come up with a melody . . . the germ needs to be there . . . the seed that contains the idea of what the song is all about. The seed can be simple: a theme, a word selected at random from a dictionary, a single image from a photo album, a snapshot from a past memory. A lyrical amd melodic story can grow from these single points.
 
Hi DC,

Thanks for the hi and the welcoming words.

i found your fourth idea on point... though i'll need to think abit more on the last part of it... does the composer need to have a predefined idea of direction?? i've struggled with that personally... but tend towards stravinski's perception... he viewed composition as an exclusionary process... absolutely anything can come next... but i eliminate all but this one idea...

No I certainly don't mean to imply that a composer needs a fully structured or predefined idea. What I mean to say is that at some stage of the creative process we all need to stop messing about and decide what we've got so far and where we're going to take it (at least I sure do :D ).
Otherwise you can fall into some pretty common traps. One is that you either noodle around endlessly, never really shape anything up properly, and hardly ever produce any fully finished work. Another is that you get carried away with the unique wonderfulness of your own precious little gems of words and notes and can't stand back and realise what a load of limp lettuce some of it is. I mean that we must develop the ability to realistically and critically edit and direct our own work.

I've seen that weakness over and over with would-be song-writers, so I now try hard to avoid it myself. I see too many offerings of alleged 'lyrics' that are often nothing more than vague inner angst rambling, or poorly constructed hack attempts at poetry. The authors (and, hey, I'm not immune either...) seem to lack the will or the skill to honestly and realistically edit and shape their work. So they might have a few lyrical ideas but can't or won't be ruthless or professional enough with them to turn them into anything much worth hearing. And the music really needs to do something a bit more than either wander aimlessly about, or just flap up and down a fairly familiar runway without ever really flying.

Typically, they're tough to give feedback to. It's praise or nothing. :) If anybody points that the words and music don't do much for the listener they'll retreat into defensive assertions that they do very personal stuff, or it's their special thing, or that they just write for the few cognoscenti who are on their wavelength and so on. As per the joke:

Q: How many amateur songwriters does it take to change a lightbulb?

A: Change!! :eek: I never change ANYTHING!

I believe that if I write a song (or a piece of prose) NOBODY owes me a hearing or a reading. If I want to be heard or read I need to provide the audience/reader with a reason to be there, and then stay there.

A big part of that is being professional enough to know how to give it some shape, point, and direction. I might start with a clear brief and purpose, or just a few vague scraps of an idea or absolutely no idea what's going to happen next (which I must admit I do enjoy a lot). But sooner or later I need to get my act together and take some deliberate decisions. the more informed those choice are, by whatever tools I have at my disposal, then the better I like the outcome.

So I keep studying and grabbing whatever I can, wherever I find it. ;)

Different approaches doubtless work for others though.

Cheers,

Chris
 
But the key, in my view, is having something to write about. I can remember having to write 'compositions' in primary school . . . and sitting blankly there, chewing the end of a pencil, daydreaming while staring out the window, listening to the squeak squeak of someone on a swing . . . and nothing but a accusatory white page staring at me. I just had no ideas at all, not realising that my lack of ideas was itself an idea worth writing about!

G'day mate. That's so true! :D


. . . and that's the exciting bit . . . because we're never quite sure how it will turn out, even though we know the putative intended result.

So . . . when trying to come up with a melody . . . the germ needs to be there . . . the seed that contains the idea of what the song is all about. The seed can be simple: a theme, a word selected at random from a dictionary, a single image from a photo album, a snapshot from a past memory. A lyrical amd melodic story can grow from these single points.

I love the sound of the musical get-togethers. I do something a bit similar most weeks at our local music shop. A few of us drop in and play together. Our audience is whoever drops in to buy something, and if they play they're welcome to join in - any age, any instrument, any playing standard. It's not exactly a jam session - we always stick some sheet music up to work off - but it's it's not exactly a band either. But it IS alway a great deal of fun, and a brilliant way to learn how music works (or doesn't... :cool: ).

I agree that some sort of germ needs to be there, or at least identified as soon as you can. It may be there from the start, or it may spring out of the process you've started with another aim in mind, but once you get that 'aha' about a good phrase, hook, lyric direction or whatever, then you need to be prepared to put the work in that it needs. If this means chucking out some other bits that I'd thought promising, then I snip them out and sling them in a 'scraps and ideas' file for later re-use.

To change the subject (or should that be 'to get back on topic'... :o ) it can be instructive to read about how others worked too. For instance I was surprised, and rather mystified to read that one of the most applauded and successful songwriters of any era - Irving Berlin - liked to compose melodies almost exclusively using the black keys of a piano. Apparently he used assistants to help arrange and transcribe what he did, and even used a special piano that had a cumbersome mechanical method of changing key by shifting the works around.

Odd.... until the penny dropped that all he was doing was primarily writing melodies using easily identifiable pentatonic scales (easy to see, easy to feel). And my keyboard can transpose at the press of a button... You don't need to be a pianist to use the black keys - just five digits on one hand is fine. Thanks Irv.... ;)

Cheers,

Chris
 
For instance I was surprised, and rather mystified to read that one of the most applauded and successful songwriters of any era - Irving Berlin - liked to compose melodies almost exclusively using the black keys of a piano. Apparently he used assistants to help arrange and transcribe what he did, and even used a special piano that had a cumbersome mechanical method of changing key by shifting the works around.

Thanks Irv.... ;)

Cheers,

Chris


from what i've read he could only play in "C" so the keydeck would move so he could sing the melodies in full voice irrespective of key...
 
from what i've read he could only play in "C" so the keydeck would move so he could sing the melodies in full voice irrespective of key...


Interesting. I wonder what he really did? The version I read quoted him as saying wryly that playing in C was for those with a college education.

What does seem to be true was that he played predominantly on the black keys. The key of F# Major uses all 5 black keys, and adds only the B and the F on the white keys. If you drop those two you're left with the pentatonic scale so beloved of rockers today.

Obviously (well perhaps not obviously for those who don't learn theory) F# Major has a relative minor key too (If my quick calculations are right that's D# - or Eb if you like) so you can start on a different black key and use the same set to play in a minor key too. Rock on Irving...

Cheers,

Chris
 
...

There's a Pent Min key that uses only all 5 black keys... was amazed when I found it out, hadnt noticed that before then, lol
 
I'm not worried. Despite your rude response to my suggestion I still say it's an exercise which may be useful to the guy.

As for originality, some peeps never have any.. and personal style; everyone has something to offer! :)

+1...I have seen that exercise in tons of songwriting books....
 
But the key, in my view, is having something to write about. I can remember having to write 'compositions' in primary school . . . and sitting blankly there, chewing the end of a pencil, daydreaming while staring out the window, listening to the squeak squeak of someone on a swing . . . and nothing but a accusatory white page staring at me. I just had no ideas at all, not realising that my lack of ideas was itself an idea worth writing about!


I once wrote a quick poem for a young friend who needed help on homework, using the same idea. I just titled it Homework Poem. The whole thing was about how she needed to write a poem that night but couldn't think of anything to write about. "A poem by Monday I have to write/ But what to do, it's Sunday night//I think of trees, flowers and birds, but they don't help me think of words..." I never did find out what grade "we" got on it. lol

(She now writes poetry on her own, btw.)
 
Interesting. I wonder what he really did? The version I read quoted him as saying wryly that playing in C was for those with a college education.

What does seem to be true was that he played predominantly on the black keys. The key of F# Major uses all 5 black keys, and adds only the B and the F on the white keys. If you drop those two you're left with the pentatonic scale so beloved of rockers today.

Obviously (well perhaps not obviously for those who don't learn theory) F# Major has a relative minor key too (If my quick calculations are right that's D# - or Eb if you like) so you can start on a different black key and use the same set to play in a minor key too. Rock on Irving...

Cheers,

Chris

yeah unfortunately neither of us will have opprotunity to ask him...

what makes you think he played predominantly black keys??? certainly his harmonics come from somewhere other than pentatonics... much less just the black ones... oh and leading tone in F# is E#... (doh)
 
what makes you think he played predominantly black keys???

Because I've seen it so often quoted in bios of him, and also debated in discussions.

Sample quotes:

Berlin was a self-taught pianist and one who reputedly restricted himself mainly to the black keys of the piano. Eventually he bought a special piano with a lever under the keyboard, enabling him to transpose his music mechanically.He once explained his compositional method thus: "I get an idea, either a title or a phrase or a melody, and hum it out to something definite. When I have completed a song and memorized it, I dictate it to an arranger."

OR

Early on, Charles K. Harris credited his arranger but as soon as he was successful, the arrangers were forgotten. In Berlin's case, he seems to have never credited arrangers for their collaboration. This is especially interesting given the fact that Berlin never really learned to play the piano. In fact, over his entire life, he ultimately could only play in one key, F sharp, essentially only black keys. Later, he had a device attached to his piano that would allow him to transpose other keys to his favored one.

Now, there's no doubt that "Only played on the black keys, and couldn't read music", which you sometime see, makes a more eye catching line than "Liked to compose mostly on the black keys, and wasn't a very good reader or pianist" which is possibly nearer the truth.

But it does seem to be true that his original talent was for strong melodies and lyrics and that he employed assistants to help with harmony and transcription.

There's also no doubt that there are advantages to playing on the black keys. Maybe not everybody can see it, but I can certainly feel it. You can just feel the structure of the scale so clearly under your hand. It's broken into a pair and a group of three, so it's crystal clear how they relate. It's a pentatonic scale (Major or minor depending which note you start on) but when you want the 'missing' two white notes to complete the set, they are also very easy to locate. I'm quite sure that he didn't just stick to the black notes - that seems overly fanciful, and rather pointless, and can probably be easily disproved by looking at some of his melodies. But using the physical advantages of the layout and transposing it into other keys seems a fine idea to me. :)

Cheers,

Chris
 
Music has been around since the dawn of man in some form or fashion, somewhere through the years, I'm sure every song has been written and every melody has been played. Even if it never got writen or recorded.
Plus, the whole theory of what makes a good song depends on where you live, nationality, background. Music theory is like every other theory, just a bunch of people quoting their thoughts and trying to make them fact.
I say screw it all and write what you feel. Don't ever write a song trying for it to be the next hit. If you do, people will be able to tell you tried to hard...... that's my "theory".
 
Music has been around since the dawn of man in some form or fashion, somewhere through the years, I'm sure every song has been written and every melody has been played. Even if it never got writen or recorded.

Indeed, music has been around since some cave-dweller figured that banging a stick on a rock sounded cool. But I'm not as sure as you are that every song and every melody has been written. Just the same as I'm sure not very novel has been written.

Plus, the whole theory of what makes a good song depends on where you live, nationality, background. Music theory is like every other theory, just a bunch of people quoting their thoughts and trying to make them fact.

If you are using the term "music theory" as an equivalent to "the theory of making music that becomes a hit", then I'm inclined to agree. If such a theory existed and could be enscapulated in some sort of formula, then every song written using it would become a hit, which is clearly not the case.

However, if you are using the term "music theory" as representing the body of knowledge about music more generally, then I would disagree. Like grammar, music theory is a way of determining the "rules" of essentially an oral phenomena. Even allowing for the eccentricities of the English language, its grammar is remarkably robust, and likewise, so is music theory.

I say screw it all and write what you feel. Don't ever write a song trying for it to be the next hit. If you do, people will be able to tell you tried to hard...... that's my "theory".

This all depends on what your brief is. If you are, say, Lieber & Stoller, then you are being paid to write hits. If you want to make a living from writing, then you need to be a commercial success.

If, on the other hand, you are writing for your own personal reasons, where commercial success is a desirable but unessential part of the brief, then I totally agree . . . write what you feel.

Finally, people will only be able to tell that you tried too hard if you do a crappy job of writing.
 
Music theory is like every other theory, just a bunch of people quoting their thoughts and trying to make them fact.

:D

I've learned mostly by noodling, improvising , and generally mucking about. I've never been able to follow anything as sensible as a practice schedule. Ever.

Yet I find myself, time and time again, defending learning theory, because I've found it so incredibly useful. I think that the whole idea of "THEORY" :eek: is much misunderstood, by people who think it's narrow, obscure and bossy. It isn't.


I say screw it all and write what you feel.

Yeah... sure... but how are you going to do it without any theory?? Reinvent music?

Here’s a guitar. What do I do first? Makes sure that it’s tune. Do you know what ‘tune’ means? because if you do that’s part of music theory. Did you know that ‘standard’ tuning is EADGBE and that there are other ‘open tuning’ possibilties? because if you do, you’re quite a theory geek already...;)

OK, it’s in tune I want to play a little solo. How? I can try every note on the guitar (and I’d certainly recommend that you try doing just that from time to time) or I can go to the other end and pick an appropriate simple pentatonic scale. OK, but how? I can learn some of those ‘boxes’ (more simple theory) or go a little deeper and find out what a pentatonic scale really is (smarter theory). If I take the second option I can put together my own versions of pentatonic scales all over the neck, in any combination I fancy, and move freely from place to place without being stuck in the boxes. I like the sound of option two, but I like option three even better - learn more about a whole lot of other scales too, and find out how to build them and use them.

Now, if all that theory hasn’t ruined my brain I might fancy playing some chords (providing I have enough theory to know what ‘chord’ means...). Again, I can work round the neck trying every combination of notes (if I have several lifetimes to spare) or I can look some up in a book and put my fingers where I’m told to. I can also stick to playing these chords in the order I’m told to. Or I can find out more - like how to build them, what notes I need and don’t need, which I can add to get different effects etc. And I can learn about chord progressions - what that means, which ones are common and which are unusual, and why. And so on. Knowing that I vi IV V progressions (or whatever) are very popular for ‘hits’ sure is handy - not just because I might want to follow the herd, but precisely because I might want to deliberately NOT do so.

‘Theory’ has two elements - the knowledge and the language to describe the knowledge. Many people seem to get very put off by the language, so dismiss the whole idea of ‘Theory’. Fair enough, if that’s your thing, but I’ve found every bit of music theory that I’ve learned to be both interesting and useful.

If some people prefer climbing the mountain by feel alone, that fine, but I really enjoy the wider view. Theory puts both a pair of binoculars and a microscope in my pack as well. I like to stop and have a good look at some of the detail on the way up too...

Cheers,

Chris
 
I wasn't trying to start a debate here. It was just that the one who started this question, Christopher xo, just said he was having a slight mental block. After reading everything that everyone said, I'm wondering if it helped him or made it worse because now he's is probably concentrating even harder to create a melody.
Didn't mean to upset anyone.
 
I wasn't trying to start a debate here. It was just that the one who started this question, Christopher xo, just said he was having a slight mental block. After reading everything that everyone said, I'm wondering if it helped him or made it worse because now he's is probably concentrating even harder to create a melody.
Didn't mean to upset anyone.

I'm not upset . . . I just like being contrary!

It's possible that in the face of overwhelming theory, Christopher may be even worse off.

However, it is also possible that the discussion about theory, even if it is all a bit philosophical, has triggered a melodic seed in his brain.
 
...

I dunno...

on the ONE hand, you take someone like "jewel". Some cute 14 year old girl, sits and strums slowly on a acoustic guitar, nothing huge... and sings her poetry over it and hums along... and the whoel world, both critically and sales-wise, went absolutely apesh!t over it all... is it "good", yes it is. Very good, I suppose.

On the other hand, I also like complex and classical sounding music, personally, to listen to. "Progressive". My buddy recently turned me on to old Genesis (fifth of furth, anyone?) incredible and classical. Moody blues, days of future passed. Old Queensryche had some serious classical to it, wioth near-operatic vocals over it to boot... old queen, very complex and dramatic stuff arranged...

I am struck by the fact, that there are people out there DOING this complex stuff, and likely going frmo producer to producer, hearing stuff like...

"Eh *shrugs* look guy, dont BORE us with this old fashioned high-brow crap... write some simple direct melodies, some straightforward rhythm strumming, and some catchy hooks, 'kay? Dont BORE us, and get to the CHORUS, ya know? NEXT!!!"

and I feel this is a great "dis-service" to a lot more people than just ME. I dont think a lot of kids KNOW there's somethign out there but hippity-hop and bubble gum pop, and every singer/band has to either sound like creed or green day, or some cross inbetween.

I'm not sure young people realize that guitar players can use their fingertips to make great riffs and complex leads, I hear a LOT of strumming on acoustic and electric guitars these days...

A young kid asked me what "classical was", and I wasn't getting thru to him. I finally asked him if he ever watch the original "star wars", and he said "oh! Harry potter stuff, eh? Cool..."

THEN you see a few young people "discovering" old progressive (classical inspired) music albums... and they are blown away...

SOMEwhere along the line... some frickin' F@chtard decided to put proper classical under the heading "New Age"... now everyone thinks anything classical sounding/inspired is "new age". Heck, I was wondering where all the modern classical stuff is, I did not KNOW it was under "new age" category. By the sacred balls of Zeus and Jupiter, "chakra healing hippie music" is in the same category, along with birds tweeting and farting whale sounds to "relax to".

Good christ, if someone DOES come along doing stuff reminiscient of "old queen" or "fifth of furth"... its gonna get BURIED in the new age category, where people dont know to LOOK for it.


Analysis??? Yes, when you listen to a LOT of "critically acclaimed" and "big sales" on the radio being someone strumming a few basic chords on a acoustic, and singing (or rapping...lol) poetry over it... you CAN easily get the idea that "music theory is for losers" because all the impressive classical sounding stuff is next to the "farting whales and hippie chanting" music section...

I have a "theory".... I have seen "bell bottom" jeans come and go TWICE in my lifetime... I have seen crew cuts for men come and go twice now...

on that note (pun intended)?? stuff that sounds like "fifth of furth" will come again too... then, serious composers and the serious musicians that play that sort of thing can leave all the "strummers and talkers" sitting and scratching their heads, wondering how they can "feel their way, man..." thru a piece like that, lol.

when high brow music "comes around again", as thngs always do... people will be simply scrambling for music theory texts, LMAO
 
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