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bdemenil
New member
Is there any particular advantage to posting music as real-audio, windows media, or whatever over mp3?
Tom Hicks
Well-known member
Hi Ben
Of course MP3 is king of the web.If you want the most people to hear your stuff...
On the other hand,get the new windows media encoding tools and compare (the same bitrate and filesize) the sound of .wma to .mp3.IMHO the new windows format sounds better.Since most people already have media player anyway,simply clicking on a .wma file will activate media player.
I've been posting my stuff in both formats lately but I think .wma has the edge in sound quality (at least this year).
Tom
Of course MP3 is king of the web.If you want the most people to hear your stuff...
On the other hand,get the new windows media encoding tools and compare (the same bitrate and filesize) the sound of .wma to .mp3.IMHO the new windows format sounds better.Since most people already have media player anyway,simply clicking on a .wma file will activate media player.
I've been posting my stuff in both formats lately but I think .wma has the edge in sound quality (at least this year).
Tom
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bdemenil
New member
Hey Tom, in my experiments wma files took a long time to load - even very light weight ones. Meanwhile mp3s started playing immediately. I'm using the win media player built into explorer 6 for XP.
Tom Hicks
Well-known member
Ben
Maybe you could tell me what techniques are used to get .mp3 to stream.Is it a windows software I could download?
I've never done a time comparison on how quick they start.That sounds interesting.However I do think .wma currently has a slight edge in sound quality.Last year I was trying .asf format and this year its .wma.Probably something new next week...
Tom
Maybe you could tell me what techniques are used to get .mp3 to stream.Is it a windows software I could download?
I've never done a time comparison on how quick they start.That sounds interesting.However I do think .wma currently has a slight edge in sound quality.Last year I was trying .asf format and this year its .wma.Probably something new next week...
Tom
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bdemenil
New member
I just post a link to the mp3 file. Media player will play it as it downloads. The only thing is if you try to jump to the middle of the song, it doesn't work so well.
What about real audio?
Tom Hicks
Well-known member
Yes,but...
if you only have a dialup modem the buffer will fill and the song will play a few seconds only and then stop as the buffer refills.I think there is a way to truely make mp3 stream at 32kbps or thereabouts so the dialup-equipped people don't get the "stutters" when they click.
As to Real Audio,there are a couple of things I don't like about those folks.Their real player is real insistant about being top dog over media player.Their proprietary format demands their player and you gotta pay for the encoding software.
Back to mp3s,I thought the folks at mp3.com were required to upload their tunes at a certain bitrate which then is somehow modified by software on the site to steam as "lo fi" etc.Maybe I'm wrong though.
Tom
if you only have a dialup modem the buffer will fill and the song will play a few seconds only and then stop as the buffer refills.I think there is a way to truely make mp3 stream at 32kbps or thereabouts so the dialup-equipped people don't get the "stutters" when they click.
As to Real Audio,there are a couple of things I don't like about those folks.Their real player is real insistant about being top dog over media player.Their proprietary format demands their player and you gotta pay for the encoding software.
Back to mp3s,I thought the folks at mp3.com were required to upload their tunes at a certain bitrate which then is somehow modified by software on the site to steam as "lo fi" etc.Maybe I'm wrong though.
Tom
TheRealWaldo
New member
'Streaming' requires special software on the end of the server, as well as specific players on the user end.
To run a true 'stream' of WMA, or ASF format, you must be running Windows Media Services on the server. The source file must be encoded in whichever bit-rate the user is capable of accepting, so there is multiple versions of the same file for hi-fi or lo-fi playback.
For RealAudio, you also require a RealServer, which they have a new fancy name for their new server package that I forget at the moment. The RA files themselves can have multi-bitrate encodes in the same file, but it is still seperate encodes, for hi-fi/lo-fi playback.
For mp3, there is several hundred different streaming servers. A simple one is nullsofts ShoutCast with 'ondemand' support. The same rules apply, as there needs to be two mp3's encoded at different bit-rates for hi-fi/lo-fi playback.
Normally, this is done on the server side, when you upload as song to a host (such as NWR, or mp3.com), the server re-compresses your file at a lower bit-rate for lo-fi playback. So the server now stores two mp3 files for hi-fi/lo-fi.
For NON-streamed applications, such as Windows Media Player, RealPlayer, and a few others, the application can 'play as downloaded', as the file format is seperated into chunks that can be read seperate from the rest. This does not require anything other than a standard HTTP server.
The 'best' format depends on use, how much you got to spend on servers, or space on servers that will host you, and what kind of music and what quality you expect.
Windows Media ASF and WMA formats have several diffent codecs. The WM8 codec is fairly lossless, and fairly crisp. But you eliminate Mac and Linux users instantly, and anyone who does not have Windows Media Player version 8 or above, from being able to listen.
RealPlayer is of course becoming the least popular player out there. I for one do not have it installed, and you will hear many people whine about it's sound quality. The codecs, IMO, blow.
The mp3 format, of course, can be played by a multitude of players, and operating systems, with little limitation, so you will widen your audience. You also can get excellent quality from it, by using higher bit-rates, and better codecs (there is now hundreds of mp3 codecs).
There is other formats, of course, like Ogg Vorbis, Quick Time, etc.. But they of course require special software for playback, limitting your audience. Some have better quality than any I listed above!
So, IMO, your best best is to use the mp3 format. If you need any help picking out a good codec/encoder combo, just shout.
W.
To run a true 'stream' of WMA, or ASF format, you must be running Windows Media Services on the server. The source file must be encoded in whichever bit-rate the user is capable of accepting, so there is multiple versions of the same file for hi-fi or lo-fi playback.
For RealAudio, you also require a RealServer, which they have a new fancy name for their new server package that I forget at the moment. The RA files themselves can have multi-bitrate encodes in the same file, but it is still seperate encodes, for hi-fi/lo-fi playback.
For mp3, there is several hundred different streaming servers. A simple one is nullsofts ShoutCast with 'ondemand' support. The same rules apply, as there needs to be two mp3's encoded at different bit-rates for hi-fi/lo-fi playback.
Normally, this is done on the server side, when you upload as song to a host (such as NWR, or mp3.com), the server re-compresses your file at a lower bit-rate for lo-fi playback. So the server now stores two mp3 files for hi-fi/lo-fi.
For NON-streamed applications, such as Windows Media Player, RealPlayer, and a few others, the application can 'play as downloaded', as the file format is seperated into chunks that can be read seperate from the rest. This does not require anything other than a standard HTTP server.
The 'best' format depends on use, how much you got to spend on servers, or space on servers that will host you, and what kind of music and what quality you expect.
Windows Media ASF and WMA formats have several diffent codecs. The WM8 codec is fairly lossless, and fairly crisp. But you eliminate Mac and Linux users instantly, and anyone who does not have Windows Media Player version 8 or above, from being able to listen.
RealPlayer is of course becoming the least popular player out there. I for one do not have it installed, and you will hear many people whine about it's sound quality. The codecs, IMO, blow.
The mp3 format, of course, can be played by a multitude of players, and operating systems, with little limitation, so you will widen your audience. You also can get excellent quality from it, by using higher bit-rates, and better codecs (there is now hundreds of mp3 codecs).
There is other formats, of course, like Ogg Vorbis, Quick Time, etc.. But they of course require special software for playback, limitting your audience. Some have better quality than any I listed above!
So, IMO, your best best is to use the mp3 format. If you need any help picking out a good codec/encoder combo, just shout.
W.
Tom Hicks
Well-known member
Excellant post Waldo
When I started doing .asf files last year, I had to learn about meta tags and such.I am currently encoding to .mp3 AND .wma to assure folks will hear my posts.Luckily I have 100 megs FTPable webspace so I currently have enough room for both.But when that fills up I will have to start removing something and I suspect that will be the .mp3 files.Just because I'm convinced that .wma simply sounds better.Of course, it will probably be a completely new format next year...
Tom
p.s. Any relation of your moniker to Mr. Heinlein's charactor?
When I started doing .asf files last year, I had to learn about meta tags and such.I am currently encoding to .mp3 AND .wma to assure folks will hear my posts.Luckily I have 100 megs FTPable webspace so I currently have enough room for both.But when that fills up I will have to start removing something and I suspect that will be the .mp3 files.Just because I'm convinced that .wma simply sounds better.Of course, it will probably be a completely new format next year...
Tom
p.s. Any relation of your moniker to Mr. Heinlein's charactor?
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bdemenil
New member
Waldo, do you know any other good servers for streaming MP3? Also I'd love to get your opinion on which are good encoders. Right now I'm using wavelab.
Ben
Ben
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pglewis
New member
I'm pretty sure WaveLab uses the Fraunhofer encoder. Whatever they use, it's pretty good. LAME is a very good free encoder as well.
TheRealWaldo
New member
I'll have to agree with pglewis that LAME is pretty much the best encoder available for free.
The Fraunhaufer Pro codecs are of course, the standard, as they invented the mp3 format. The non-pro isn't so great anymore, in comparison to the new LAME.
As far as hosting, I own/run NoWhere. Feel free to sign up if you like. I have a more detailed listing of codecs in the artists section over there somewhere.
Tom, only in that I used to be difficult to find
The WMA format covers quite a few codecs, with varying quality levels, and of course each codec has variable settings that can effect quality as well. I may reintroduce in the future, WMA hosting on NWR, for those who have experience in that area. The only issue is that I would require an entire seperate server and load balancing network, as well as licensed Microsoft software, which will be a large chunk of change from my pocket, just to be able to stream the files. Downloading is no issue of course, but some musicians wish to protect their music, and streaming is the safest way You should try out Ogg Vorbis sometime, it also has a very excellent quality to size ratio.
W.
The Fraunhaufer Pro codecs are of course, the standard, as they invented the mp3 format. The non-pro isn't so great anymore, in comparison to the new LAME.
As far as hosting, I own/run NoWhere. Feel free to sign up if you like. I have a more detailed listing of codecs in the artists section over there somewhere.
Tom, only in that I used to be difficult to find
The WMA format covers quite a few codecs, with varying quality levels, and of course each codec has variable settings that can effect quality as well. I may reintroduce in the future, WMA hosting on NWR, for those who have experience in that area. The only issue is that I would require an entire seperate server and load balancing network, as well as licensed Microsoft software, which will be a large chunk of change from my pocket, just to be able to stream the files. Downloading is no issue of course, but some musicians wish to protect their music, and streaming is the safest way You should try out Ogg Vorbis sometime, it also has a very excellent quality to size ratio.W.
drstawl
Banned
>The codecs, IMO, blow.
Real Audio has other issues. Bigtime!
My experience comes from being forced to have it installed to listen to internet broadcasts of one of the only free radio stations in North Amerika. That being KPFK.
www.kpfk.org
I can also get it on local FM, but their transmitter is spotty and my antenna position is compromised by power lines.
I HATE RealAudio, even though it does sound pretty good at FAT delivery rates. A well encoded mp3 sounds much better at the same bitrate IMHO. The reason for my dislike of RealAudio is that there software has the audacity (this SHOULD BE ILLEGAL, and in the future, probably will be) to modify my registry without my knowledge or consent so that their code is permanently resident in memory and in my taskbar. I can shut it off manually, but it will appear upon reboot unless I use msconfig to restore my settings, but that requires a reboot to take effect, a major pain in the ass. And this is not the install program doing this, because I've failed to peruse each lousy checkbox thrown my way.
This happens just by RUNNING RealAudio.
So to those insulting marketing wizards that ordered the programmers to include this viral behavior in their code:
Eat My Shorts. Your time is short. The party's over.
You're gonna be takin' a bath down at the lagoon.
Hope you like eating what the neighbors threw out over the past few days. Don't let the fleas bite you! Don't mind that cop's nightstick upside your head while he giggles and tells you to move your stinkin' carcass down the road.
Real Audio has other issues. Bigtime!
My experience comes from being forced to have it installed to listen to internet broadcasts of one of the only free radio stations in North Amerika. That being KPFK.
www.kpfk.org
I can also get it on local FM, but their transmitter is spotty and my antenna position is compromised by power lines.
I HATE RealAudio, even though it does sound pretty good at FAT delivery rates. A well encoded mp3 sounds much better at the same bitrate IMHO. The reason for my dislike of RealAudio is that there software has the audacity (this SHOULD BE ILLEGAL, and in the future, probably will be) to modify my registry without my knowledge or consent so that their code is permanently resident in memory and in my taskbar. I can shut it off manually, but it will appear upon reboot unless I use msconfig to restore my settings, but that requires a reboot to take effect, a major pain in the ass. And this is not the install program doing this, because I've failed to peruse each lousy checkbox thrown my way.
This happens just by RUNNING RealAudio.
So to those insulting marketing wizards that ordered the programmers to include this viral behavior in their code:
Eat My Shorts. Your time is short. The party's over.
You're gonna be takin' a bath down at the lagoon.
Hope you like eating what the neighbors threw out over the past few days. Don't let the fleas bite you! Don't mind that cop's nightstick upside your head while he giggles and tells you to move your stinkin' carcass down the road.