Still indecisive... which mic to use for recording?

F

FURAX Eric

New member
I checked out several condenser mics (and one hyper cardoid) to use for recording. They are:

Behringer B1 - $99 with shockmount, case, cable
Marshall MXL V63 - $69 as is.
Audio-Technica AT3035 - $199 (but that's a big MAYBE)
Shure Beta 58a - $159

Now all are relatively inexpensive with the exception of the Beta 58 and the Audio Technica. I will probably not buy the Audio Technica due to its higher cost, but I am strongly considering the Beta 58 due to its live application as well.

The Marshall MXL might be the best economically, because it would leave me with some cash to get myself a decent preamp. But I also hear that the B

The recording we are going to do is for a metal band. Lots of screaming (along the lines of Fear Factory, Slipknot, etc.), and some singing too. Which is the best mic out of these to use for this type of recording?
 
Well, if you're going to be screaming, it doesn't matter which mic you use. It's not like anyone will be able to tell if your screaming is off key!
Of the ones you listed, I have the MXL V63. Nice mic. Good on Vocals. Inexpensive, large diameter condensor. You could spend more money and do a lot worse.
Don't get sucked in on freebies like cases, shock mounts and cables. That's marketing ploy. If you go out and buy a case, shock mount and cable, even very cheap ones, you're into 40-50 bucks. Gives you an idea of what the mic's really worth.
 
Michael Jones said:
Well, if you're going to be screaming, it doesn't matter which mic you use. It's not like anyone will be able to tell if your screaming is off key!
Of the ones you listed, I have the MXL V63. Nice mic. Good on Vocals. Inexpensive, large diameter condensor. You could spend more money and do a lot worse.
Don't get sucked in on freebies like cases, shock mounts and cables. That's marketing ploy. If you go out and buy a case, shock mount and cable, even very cheap ones, you're into 40-50 bucks. Gives you an idea of what the mic's really worth.
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Yes but he is probably going to want that shock mount or cable or case, and would probably end up buying it anyway. Just remember you get what you pay for (well, sort of)

Scott
 
There seems to be a little bit of conceptual confusion embedded in this thread.

First Eric checks out "several condensers and a hyper-cardioid". The implication is that a hypercardioid is different than a condenser, when in fact it only refers to the pick-up pattern of the mic. There are hypercardioid condensers as well as dynamics. Even one of the Beyer ribbon mics is hypercardioid.

Then Michael says if you are screaming it won't matter which mic you use, because no one will be able to tell if your screaming is off key. This is a little strange, because no mic choice is ever going to affect being on or off key, screaming or not. I would think the main issue with "screaming" would be the ability to handle high SPL without distortion, as well as spitting and plosives. Those parameters, unlike intonation, could be strongly affected by mic choice.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but a lot of people just getting into recording read these threads, and might be really confused by some of the above statements.
 
Sorry. You are right man, I should have said dynamic. I was also a bit confused by his "on key" thing"... Well do you recommend a mic that can withstand the high spl and plosives?
 
Little Dog-
My comment about screaming (which personally, I think is stupid, completely un-musical, and takes absolutely no talent to accomplish) is that you don't need a mic capable of capturing subtle nuances if you're just going to scream into it. Furthermore, it's my firm beliefe that mics aren't made to be screamed into.
That's like asking someone what piano (a very delicate instrument, much like a microphone) should I buy because I plan on banging the keys as hard as I can with my fists.
Or like asking, what strings should I use in the guitar I plan on smashing on stage, because, you know, I want a really sweet, subtle tone the moment before those humbuckers come flying out of the body. :rolleyes:

Now you know how I really feel!:p
 
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Well you can scream in different tones if you know how. There's only about like 5 or 6 ones with noticeable qualities, but I think that it does take some talent to actually know how to do it. When people "scream", it's not like how someone screams when they are mad, there are certain techniques that are used. I think it is harder to sing good, but I don't think that screaming is something that anyone can do, because there are a lot of metal bands with singers that cannot scream well.

I don't really think your analogy is accurate either. I think that screaming to singing would be like putting distortion on a guitar. It's an effect, another dimension that you can add to your voice. Granted, with any effect, overuse can become monotonous and somewhat annoying, so that is left up to the artist. =)

Trying to shed some light on your ignorance, hope I helped.
 
Furax, based upon your preference for recording/live use I'd try the following dynamic microphones;

1) Used Shure Beta 58 or Beta 57 (why spend extra $ for new?)
2) Used Beyer Soundstar MKII (no longer being made)
3) EV C09 new or used

These 3 are basically hypercardiod so you'll have more separation from other instruments if you'll be performing/tracking at the same time.

Hope this helps!
Chris
 
FURAX Eric said:
Trying to shed some light on your ignorance, hope I helped.
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Look, I'm not trying to start a fight, or a flame war, but ignorance has nothing to do with it.
This board is all about opinions. I simply gave you mine.
Peace.
 
Thanks chessparov for the useful info. I think I'm probably going to get the Beta off of E-Bay because I can't find the other two.

p.s. - Michael, I understand, I was just trying to give you a bit of education from the other side. No hard feelings. =)
 
Michael:

Perhaps it's more a matter of semantics. "Screaming" (as used as an antithesis of "singing") certainly implies a certain lack of musicality, so perhaps it's the wrong word.

But if you examine the historical traditions of American pop music, you would certainly have to include the field "hollars" of the plantation slaves, and the "shouting" blues tradition embodied by such great artists as Jimmy Rushing.

So if "hollaring" and "shouting" are acceptable musical forms, the "screaming" of heavy metal lead singers (from Led Zep to AC-DC) at least has legitimate roots. Like any other musical style, there is a range of talent and performance from horribly inept and unmusical to stirring and inspiring. Which is another way of saying you can find at least a few non-talented unmusical people populating every musical style.

While heavy metal is hardly my favorite form of music, some of the original "prototype" albums of the style (like Led Zeppelin 1 & 2) I think contain very exciting music. It's hard to describe a lot of the singing on, say, "Whole Lotta Lovin" without using the "screaming" word, but I would find it hard to imagine all but the most narrow-minded listeners evaluating Robert Plant as "unmusical", "untalented" or "stupid".

Do you disagree, Michael?
 
Furax, happy to help.
Please be careful though about "screaming" vocals though.
As you may already know, there are some singers with HUGE voices that
are less likely to be damaged through hard rock singing.
Most of us singers, however, have lyric (melodic) voices that can easily be
damaged from vocal abuse. Unlike a guitar there's only one per customer!

Chris
 
Stick to a 58 (Fear Factory fan here :) )

By the way.........perhaps 'screaming' is not the right word to describe metal / industrial vocal escapades?
My son is such a vocal athlete - my ex wife calls it "puking to music":D
 
littledog said:

While heavy metal is hardly my favorite form of music, some of the original "prototype" albums of the style (like Led Zeppelin 1 & 2) I think contain very exciting music. It's hard to describe a lot of the singing on, say, "Whole Lotta Lovin" without using the "screaming" word, but I would find it hard to imagine all but the most narrow-minded listeners evaluating Robert Plant as "unmusical", "untalented" or "stupid".

Do you disagree, Michael?
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As an artist, I have a pretty open mind towards it's definition.
As a musician, the definition of musical is definately narrower, and I believe, rightfully so.

When I was 10, my musical studies focused on the classics.
When I was 15, I thought Zepplin was the greatest.
At 25, my focus shifted to artists like Stevie Ray Vaughn, or even Steve Vai.
At 35 my energies were spent trying to emulate musicians like Billy Joel, Elton John, John Tesh, and Andrew Lloyd Webber.
In my post 40 era of life, I find myself playing, and studying the music of greats like Rachmaninoff, DeBussy, and Chopin, among others.
I guess as we get older, our musical tastes refine, and as a result, so to does our definition of "musical". And I think thats typical of many people, I'd like to think of it as an evolution or, better yet, an enlightenment.

Perhaps "screaming" is indeed a misnomer. For me, it conjures up visions of people like Fred Derst screaming his lyrics to a placated, yet frenzied crowd, whilst doing his spaztic stage dance in his cut-off jams. Such a vision, even in the broadest of terms, would be difficult to call musical.

Perhaps a better term would be "aggressive vocals." ;)

For all of you, I wish nothing less, than a "Good Harvest"
~Michael~
 
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Artistic merit of "screaming" aside... I'd rather give a client a $150 SM58 to scream into, than a pricey condenser!

(Maybe if it was a really cheap condenser - a Marshall MXL2001 for example - that would be ok!) ;)
 
I agree with you 100%, Michael, that as most of us age our musical tastes tend to mellow. In my teens and twenties, for instance, I could listen to Cecil Taylor and Albert Ayler for hours on end, and while I still appreciate them, these days I find myself spending more time with Bill Evans and Ben Webster.

I guess the difference is, I wouldn't dream of saying that Cecil Taylor and Albert Ayler (which would be two of the avant-garde jazz equivalents of "screamers") are untalented, unmusical, or stupid.

(By the way, isn't this cool that we can actually have a reasoned discussion about musical tastes without degenerating into personal attacks? We might be setting a dangerous trend here!:D )
 
littledog said:
(By the way, isn't this cool that we can actually have a reasoned discussion about musical tastes without degenerating into personal attacks? We might be setting a dangerous trend here!:D )
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It is very cool! :cool:
Sorry if I pushed the edge of the envelop there at the start. It was not my intention to denigrate.
 
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