Steve Sank modified Behringer 1953 preamp

[kojdogg]

Noted and controversial ribbon guru Steve Sank modifies the much maligned Behringer 1953 preamps (the ones where there are LED's behind the tubes to make them glow) and then has a ribbon mic (and other gear) business called Pro Audio Heaven distribute them for him on ebay.

Here's the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Modified-Behrin...yZ119018QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'm just curious, because I'm having an Oktava MK-219 and a Nady TCM1100 (both budget mics) modded by different techs, but what do folks think about Berhinger mods-- a good idea? going too far?

 

[mshilarious]

Well I guess if you replace enough parts, anything could be good But a couple of things strike me about that auction listing. First off, an opamp change by itself will not change gain, that is dependent upon the rest of the circuit. Now it very well could be that a noise reduction would allow a gain change without excess noise, but opamps themselves, even cheap ones, aren't horribly noisy to the point where a 12dB difference would be realized with a swap. So I think the auction lister misunderstands the nature of the change, although the results could be correct.

Which brings up the second point, changing 328 components in a device and adding 72. Dude, by the time you build out 400 components, why not build from scratch

 

[kojdogg]

Thanks for the expert opinion. I think that Sank only swapped the 328 components out and added the 72 in the lister-dude's Roland HD recorder. It doesn't sound like Sank does anything but change the op-amps in the Behringer.
At some point I think maybe if you buy components in enough bulk, and just change a few parts in these things, it's cheaper to mod a cheap unit that to have housings and pcbs made custom!

 

[mshilarious]

I still suspect it's more than just opamps. Personally, if you are into modding cheap tube gear, I would look at the ART Tube MP, since there is tons of documentation out there on mods for that unit. I haven't read too much about anybody modding the Behri.

 

[zorf]

i had talked to Steve a couple of months ago about modding my korg d16mkII when i saw that he modded the sellers roland unit. I had never considered modding something in this category before. Kind of intriguing.
I asked him about getting more gain out of the built in pres to make them more ribbon friendly. No problem, he said.
I asked about just upgrading a couple of the channels for tracking, and he said that one of the biggest sources of improvement (if i remember this right), was
due to upgrading the power supply. I asked him about modding some other stuff as well. I enjoyed talking with him on the phone.
When i looked into the shipping costs, and hassle of packing, i decided to wait for now. If i lived in
tuscon or phoenix, i might consider dropping it off in person.
I have no opinion on his ethics or reliability. Others do.

 

[SonicAlbert]

Yeah, you might want to do a google search before sending money.

It looks like the mod to the 1953 is eight burr browns and nothing else. They probably do help, but with that unit I think I'd want to see more extensive changes made--I'd basically want to see the insides gutted and replaced.

 

[kojdogg]

Yeah, you might want to do a google search before sending money.

It looks like the mod to the 1953 is eight burr browns and nothing else. They probably do help, but with that unit I think I'd want to see more extensive changes made--I'd basically want to see the insides gutted and replaced.

Agreed. The Nady I'm getting modded is essentially having just that done-- new capsule, some changes in the circuit (capacitor changes and a tube change) and a new output transformer. The Michael Joly Premium Electronics OktavaMod reportedly changes everything but the capsule, the pcb itself and the transformer.
Michael Joly (a member of this board incidentally), FWIW has been extremely pleasant to deal with so far and demonstrates a high level of business organization and timeliness, which is (not too overgeneralize) not always the case with these kind of techs (from what I've read and my limited experience).

I'm not seriously considering getting one of these Behringers at this time-- I recently met a dude who got one though and was amused by the idea. I figured that this was a good way to open up some good-natured Behringer bashing.

Edit: FD: I do, still own and use a few Behringer pieces though.

 

[Minion]

As was Said before Changing the Opamps will not increase the Gain as the Gain is dependant on the Feedback loop....

Even if you changed Low gain opamps with high gain opamps you would still have to change the Feedback loop to increase the Gain but that can be done by simply Increaseing the Value of the Feedback resistor or lowering the Input resistor.....

Most of the Beringer gear I have opened up used either TL07x or NE553x opamps which aren"t bad opamps if used properly and the Cost of putting in New OPA627 would be a Little prohibitive as they cost like $10 to $15 each compared to under $1 for the TL07x or NE553x, I think a more cost effective Replacement would be a OPA134/2134 as they are maybe $3 each and are very good opamps and with the OPA627 you wouldn"t get the best out of them unless you also changed other areas of the Circuitry....


Cheers

 

[Ironklad Audio]

a high level of business organization and timeliness, which is (not too overgeneralize) not always the case with these kind of techs

a timely tech? wow.

a local studio owner told me a story a while back about waiting 6+ mos. in the 80's to get a U47 reconditioned by steven paul

or is it stephen? oh well, i guess it doesn't much matter now...

 

[notCardio]

a timely tech? wow.

a local studio owner told me a story a while back about waiting 6+ mos. in the 80's to get a U47 reconditioned by steven paul

or is it stephen? oh well, i guess it doesn't much matter now...

Well, the SP thing is in a different catagory. That would've been like getting an interview with the Pope, or having Trump review your business plan for you. When you're the most well known name at what you do, the wait time for your work is going to be a bit longer than the average joe's. Add to the fact that he was quite often too sick to work, you can't expect much.

I wish he had been around longer to make more music, forget the mics. He had talent, and I really enjoyed his guitar playing.



In a similar vein, Behri always gets a bad rap for the noise level of their mixers. Does anyone know what this is atrributed to? Low quality opamps, poor sheilding, bad circuit design? I wouldn't think it would be the latter if they were ripping off Mackie's design, so it must either be in the components used, or the execution/build quality. I'm just wondering if there's any easy mod that would yield significant improvement?

 

[mshilarious]

In a similar vein, Behri always gets a bad rap for the noise level of their mixers. Does anyone know what this is atrributed to? Low quality opamps, poor sheilding, bad circuit design? I wouldn't think it would be the latter if they were ripping off Mackie's design, so it must either be in the components used, or the execution/build quality. I'm just wondering if there's any easy mod that would yield significant improvement?

I've never opened up a Behri, but the usual suspects are poor grounding, poor shielding, quality of power supply design and components, and quality of other components. It is possible to make improvements in most of those areas, but how easy it depends on the piece of gear, whether it is SMT, etc.

 

[MCI2424]

Well, the SP thing is in a different catagory. That would've been like getting an interview with the Pope, or having Trump review your business plan for you. When you're the most well known name at what you do, the wait time for your work is going to be a bit longer than the average joe's. Add to the fact that he was quite often too sick to work, you can't expect much.

I wish he had been around longer to make more music, forget the mics. He had talent, and I really enjoyed his guitar playing.



In a similar vein, Behri always gets a bad rap for the noise level of their mixers. Does anyone know what this is atrributed to? Low quality opamps, poor sheilding, bad circuit design? I wouldn't think it would be the latter if they were ripping off Mackie's design, so it must either be in the components used, or the execution/build quality. I'm just wondering if there's any easy mod that would yield significant improvement?

I have not had any experience with the Behringer company recently, but back in 1996 or so, I got an MX8000 24/48 channel board (copy of the Mackie) made in Germany. I still have it bacause it is a decent board that has held up very well with tons of use. I retired it some years ago, but it is still in damn near mint condition and sounds as good as the Mackie it was copied from.

Then the law suit from Mackie (I almost did not get the board as Behringer was shut down at that time)

Now, the MX9000 made in China is here and is one of the worst sounding boards out there with mucho quality problems to boot.

Behringer really used to make good stuff when it was made in Germany, but I guess they just let it all go to hell. Now that Harmon Co. bought Soundcraft, they are slowly slipping into the Behringer territory little by little.

The "Ghost" is taking ill now as the new ones really suck royally.

 

[notCardio]

I've never opened up a Behri, but the usual suspects are poor grounding, poor shielding, quality of power supply design and components, and quality of other components. It is possible to make improvements in most of those areas, but how easy it depends on the piece of gear, whether it is SMT, etc.

OK, I'll show my ignorance (why stop now?), what is 'SMT'?

 

[kojdogg]

ooh ooh [raises and waves hand in air]-- surface mount t-something... technology/transistors i think

not sure though-- pretty ignorant myself

 

[xstatic]

Soundcraft is not going downhill because of Harmon. Harmon generally dustributes and the companies make their own decisions. If Soundcraft is going downhill it is because they are trying to cut costs to keep up in a competitive industry.