STEREO not panned mono

  • Thread starter Thread starter twist
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I thought a lot of television broadcasts were converting to stereo these days.

In any case, I'd say make a beautiful stereo recording anyway. If someone requires a mono mix, make a copy of the .wav file and convert that to mono. Any audio editor should be able to do this. Best of both worlds.
 
I don't understand this bit...

"To truly record something in stereo requires 2 mono tracks that are not identical."

Why can't they be identical and produce stereo? Mono track #1 panned left, clone track panned right. One comes from the left speaker, one from the right - illusion of stereo, right? Why not?
 
If you copy a track and paste it, your also copying it's signature in time.


I find it results in a mono sound, no matter how you pan them - some type of phasing/cancelation going down.

Shifting them helps though, helping in the way to create an illusion.
 
When you send a single mono track to the pan, it splits the signal and sends some to the left and some to the right (assuming you're not panning all the way to one side or the other). That is the same thing you'll be doing with an exact duplicate track. You're sending signal to two speaker, but it's the exact same signal, so there won't be any feeling of seperation. No different from a single track, just louder. Keep asking if you're confused. When you reach that "aha!" moment, a whole world is going to open up for your mix ideas :).
 
hi all , just wondering by how much should a signal pan to each side when the pan is turned?? Is it possible to fully send a signal to one side? I dont seem to be able to do this in logic ... it only seems to pan a certain amount .. by this i mean it will still have a percentage of the signal in the other speaker. Any ideas on this??
 
Spider, I dont have a DAW yet,so I cant advise you about that, but when using an old fashioned mixer with knobs, yes you can pan a signal fully from left to right or vice versa.

Twist
 
pglewis - I think I've got it - if panning a mono signal merely increases level to one speaker and decreases it to the other, then panning its clone the opposite way will merely cancel the original effect, and all you'll wind up with is a louder signal. Yes?

twist - I checked out that digido article. It's all about miking classical players in various types of halls. What do you reckon that's got to do with this thread, old buddy?
 
Spider: Yes, you should be able to pan hard left or right so that a signal only comes from one side or the other. I haven't used Logic, so I'm not sure how to do it there... I'm sure Shakes knows how.

Dobro: Yeah, I think you've got it. When an exact duplicate track is panned to one side with the original panned to the other, you're sending the same signal to both sides. If you offset one of them in time, one source reaches one speaker slightly before the other reaches the other speaker. Your ears are naturally trained to recognize this time difference as distance or depth.
 
Dobro,
As pglewis states in his last post, the slight delay in one speaker gives the illusion of distance and depth. Thats what makes the sound seem to be surrounding you. Thats where the effect of stereo comes from, by combining a direct signal from its source with a signal thats reflected. The article explains how to achieve this with mic placement in a live setting.I'm interested in trying to duplicate this effect without microphones. I want to record in mono so I have 8 separate tracks at mixdown, but I want to create a stereo mix.

Twist
 
Most boards and some software have what is called a "center dip" which means that a mono source panned straight up is actually attenuated so that as the signal is panned away from center it doesen't diminish in db. I think the Mackie's is a -6db dip but don't quote me there.

Also. look up the Hass Effect (lots of info out there). This Mr. Hass discovered that if you delay a signal and add it to the original, there is a quantifiable point at which the ear hears the delay as a seperate sound (20 ms comes to mind but don't quote me). If it is offset less than this threshold we hear it as the same sound, only fuller, if delayed more, we hear it as two discreet sounds. Tracks are often copied, panned and then one is pushed ever so slightly back (less than this 20 or so ms.) If phasing problems can be avoided this will add depth and dimesion to a mono source.

I am more inclined to put a copy on both sides and then eq them diferently. I like to play with panning so that maybe the shimmer (highs) of a guitar is slightly to the left while the body (mids) sits closer to center. The idea to get a mono sourse to envelop you without simply spreading it around with a stereo effect.
Different frequencies travel at different speeds. If you sit in a room with a guitar, what you are hearing includes a myriad of reflections coming from different directions, at different times with different tonalities.

I hope my sleep deprivation has not reduced this to useless babble

[Edited by Razor on 09-15-2000 at 00:01]
 
If you put the same on the right as the left you get mono in the center - if you pan them the opposite way you still get mono. If you pan one left on its own and listen in mono (both left and right combined - it is at one level - if you then pan it to the center and listen in mono it will rise by 3 db - center tracks do in mono. Therfore if i wanted to pan my left mono guitar across to the right in mono it would get louder as it passes through center - therefore consoles drop the level as you pass through center.

Cheers :D
 
Thanks for responding John. I guess I think I kinda got it right (left, center....;ROLLEYES:). If I grok, this center dip does play into how true mono tracks vs. how "stereo" mono tracks respond to being panned about. Yes?
I have noticed difference between fitting these different types of mono sources into a mix. Sometimes having just one wave instead of two panned identical ones makes for more imediacy (sp?) and clarity while the doubled wav can be given some stereo depth. Though I guess that means it's not mono any more, huh.
Any more info on different approaches to center scoop would be appreciated. Thanks, Charles
 
You should read this is you haven't..

http://www.digido.com/depthessay.html

Great thoughts and insight for techniques of having a truely dimensional stereo recording rather than just panning close-miced mono tracks. just read it yesterday..

But if you're just working w/ 4 or 8 tracks there's not much better you can do than running a few tracks through delay (w/ high-frequency reduction) and a good 3-D room-emulating reverb unit. You send the tracks already panned from a bus and you get them back where they were but with all the nice reflections (ideally) to sound 3D.
 
I just started my own thread on the reverse of this very same topic: I've been recording everything IN stereo (I do all my instrumentation on a rack of stereo MIDI keyboards and a stereo Boss DR-660 drum machine), with the pan knobs turned all the way out on each track (the left output being panned all the way left and the right output being panned all the way right). On what I assume are traditionally mono instruments, I think this is the wrong way to go -- stuff like bass patches, electric guitar patches, kick drums, snares, sound too spread out from the center, much more than they should be when you compare them to "real" CD recordings that I now suspect are recording these same instruments in mono, effecting them in mono and just panning them in the stereo field. And when I add a stereo-to-stereo reverb effect, or a stereo-to-stereo chorus, this only seems to make that stereo spread even more disparate. And let's not even get into the mastering stage, when I comp/limit the mix ...
 
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