Stereo mic

[Stefan A]

Well, it doesn't work. Tried my 1/4" plug and I barely get any sound from the mic. Tried both 1/4" plugs and tried setting the interface's input to guitar and then mic. Guitar gets a faint sound and mic gets nothing. That's ok, I can just use my stereo mic xlr to xlr until I get a better mic.

Stefan

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Well, it doesn't work. Tried my 1/4" plug and I barely get any sound from the mic. Tried both 1/4" plugs and tried setting the interface's input to guitar and then mic. Guitar gets a faint sound and mic gets nothing. That's ok, I can just use my stereo mic xlr to xlr until I get a better mic.

Not really. You're only getting a difference signal. Being a coincident pair of cardioids it will be effectively omni at lower frequencies so any difference signal will be high-passed. I suspect that all sounds like Greek to you but it's true.

The 1/4" input probably doesn't have enough gain. The adapter I linked to might solve that by allowing use of the XLR input which ought to have more gain. Another option is to build/buy a simple adapter from the 1/4" to the XLR.

 

[Massive Master]

Is the battery any good...?

 

[moresound]

Is the battery any good...?

Might need a jump start.

 

[Stefan A]

Battery good ✔

 

[Bobbsy]

Well, it doesn't work. Tried my 1/4" plug and I barely get any sound from the mic. Tried both 1/4" plugs and tried setting the interface's input to guitar and then mic. Guitar gets a faint sound and mic gets nothing. That's ok, I can just use my stereo mic xlr to xlr until I get a better mic.

Stefan

Er. back to basics.

The instrument input on an interface is set up for an input level roughly half way between mic level and line level. This means that a mic plugged into that socket will be way too quiet...probably 25 or 30 dB down..

Switching to mic input (but using a quarter inch jack) probably changes the input to the XLR and bypasses the quarter inch input entirely, i.e. silence.

Yup. A different mic is probably what you need. A stereo mic gives no advantage on a source like a tuba--and the stereo mic you have uses a non standard output arrangement. I'm sure that with a soldering iron I could produce something that works in terms of a cable but I wonder if it's worth it.

 

[Stefan A]

Yeah, I'm looking into a mic that is acceptable for tuba. That's a whole other story. Just a lot of differing opinions about what is best.

 

[Bobbsy]

When you get lots of differing opinions it's usually because lots of different mics do a good job and there's no clear cut "best". I've used several different mics on tuba over the years (for live sound--I've never done a studio recording as it works out) and can't suggest any clear cut winners. However, none that I've tried have been less than good.

 

[Massive Master]

Might need a jump start.

Seriously though -- I saw a guy put phantom to one of those once. A little puff of smoke and that was the end of it. That's why I'm confused about even the operating level of the thing.

 

[Bobbsy]

That's always the goal with electronics...to release the magic smoke inside that makes it work!

Seriously, despite what John Willet says, the vast majority of XLR connectors are carrying a single channel of balanced audio. It's just asking for trouble creating a mic that uses the same connector for stereo, therefore making phantom power a big danger..

I must say, I wasn't keen on AES using XLRs for their stereo digital audio either but, hey, what do I know compared to the AES!

 

[John Willett]

Jimmy - I thought the same signal through both speakers was stereo. I guess I just don't understand what stereo and mono really means. I've always thought that mono was just sound coming out of one speaker. Yeah, my newbieness is really showing

So regardless of the type of mic I have, I will still hear sound out of both speakers?

The same signal out of two loudspeakers is mono.

In it's simplest form - mono is the sound picked up by a single microphone and it's still mono even if played back over several loudspeakers.

Several microphones mixed to a single track is still mono.

Stereo is a 2-channel signal and the idea is to imitate the human ears - you hear three-dimensionally with just two ears.

In it's simplest form, stereo is the sound picked up from two microphones - one "left", the other "right" - so when it's played back you get a full three dimensional spread of sound between the stereo loudspeakers.

If you add extra microphones and mix them into "stereo" you can still get a good stereo image, but it often goes a bit two dimensional.

I hope this helps explain it a bit better for you.

 

[John Willett]

Seriously, despite what John Willett says, the vast majority of XLR connectors are carrying a single channel of balanced audio.

PLEASE - this is incorrect and confusing.

What XLR?

It is totally stupid to use "XLR" generically like this and dangerous.

4-pin XLRs normally carry DC voltages.
5-pin XLRs are normally 2-channel stereo signals.
6-pin and 7-pin XLRs are normally either multi-channel or carry audio + DC voltages
XLR-LNE connectors carry mains voltages

3-pin XLRs are about 50/50 single-channel audio (but could be mic. or line level) and 2-channel AES-3 - but could also be AES42.

What you say as "the vast majority of XLR connectors are carrying a single channel of balanced audio" could only deemed to be true if you stipulate 3-pin XLRs - and there you are only half true.

It's very important to be correct and accurate, or someone without fully understanding could take a 4-pin XLR and stuff DC voltages where they are not supposed to go!

 

[John Willett]

I must say, I wasn't keen on AES using XLRs for their stereo digital audio either but, hey, what do I know compared to the AES!

The 3-pin XLR was chosen because you can use the same cable for analogue microphones or AES3 signals - so it made sense to use the same connector. Also, you could not damage anything if you incorrectly plugged analogue to digital and vice versa.

 

[John Willett]

I just realized that my xlr input is actually a combo xlr-1/4" input.

The XLR would most likely be the mic. input and the jack socket in the middle would be either a line or instrument input.

So, you would need a mic. lead that has an XLR-3F for the mic. end and two XLR-3Ms the other end - one left and the other right (it would be wired unbalanced, of course).

 

[John Willett]

For live and recording I've always used the Sennheiser 421 And occasionally the little clip on drum microphones that some performers bring with them.

As for microphone placement - center and just right inside the bell has given me the best results.

Tried ribbon microphones a few times with good results as well.

Sorry, I would disagree with this.

Brass instruments radiate the low frequencies at right angles to the body, and only the highest frequencies come out of the bell.

I would go back a bit and capture the sound from the whole instrument.

The French Horn, for example, is best recorded by reflection rather than direct.

Have a god listen while someone plays the instrument and move around, listening carefully to the sound. Where it sounds bets to your ears is probably the best place the put the mic.

Good luck.

 

[Bobbsy]

PLEASE - this is incorrect and confusing.

What XLR?

It is totally stupid to use "XLR" generically like this and dangerous.

4-pin XLRs normally carry DC voltages.
5-pin XLRs are normally 2-channel stereo signals.
6-pin and 7-pin XLRs are normally either multi-channel or carry audio + DC voltages
XLR-LNE connectors carry mains voltages

3-pin XLRs are about 50/50 single-channel audio (but could be mic. or line level) and 2-channel AES-3 - but could also be AES42.

What you say as "the vast majority of XLR connectors are carrying a single channel of balanced audio" could only deemed to be true if you stipulate 3-pin XLRs - and there you are only half true.

It's very important to be correct and accurate, or someone without fully understanding could take a 4-pin XLR and stuff DC voltages where they are not supposed to go!

John, if anyone is confusing a poor newbie on this forum it is you and I wish you would stop.

In an HR context probably 99.999% of XLRs are the three pin variety and carrying a balanced audio signal. This is usually mic level but I'm frequently at pains to point out that, particularly with high end and/or broadcast equipment, it's fairly normal to use the XLR-3 for line level as well.

It's far from "stupid" to refer to XLR and mean the 3 pin variety, particularly in this forum which is not involved in DMX, 12 volt supplies to broadcast gear and so on. Actually it's not just this forum. Walk into any professional audio set up, studio, broadcast, location recording, etc. and you'll find all the engineers simple referring to XLRs with the XLR-3F or XLR-3M assumed. About the only time the full designation is used is when you're ordering parts. On the other hand, the other variants are almost always referred to in detail to avoid confusion.

Oh, and I was responsible for having XLR-LNE connectors from a facility I worked in when it became known that the plastic shrouds could pull out too easily causing a danger of electrical shock.

Your contention that some 50% of XLR-3 connectors in use around the world is carrying AES audio is ludicrous in the extreme. The penetration of AES digital is simply not that great when compared to all the analogue uses out there. (Just as an aside, the local theatre where I do occasional shifts has a 56 channel Midas Pro6. There are about 150 inputs on digital stage boxes fed via CAT5 to the mixer and software patchable. The same mixer has only 1 AES in and 1 AES out--and even this is presently unused. This is pretty typical of venues, both live and studio, that I've worked in.

Yes, it's important to be accurate. However, it's also important not to allow your pedantry to take a simple question and complicate the answer to much it's useless to the inexperienced people in here who are looking for a very basic level of guidance.

Please don't try to impress me or get into a pissing match with your great level of theoretical knowledge. I've probably forgotten more about engineering that you've ever known.

 

[Bobbsy]

The 3-pin XLR was chosen because you can use the same cable for analogue microphones or AES3 signals - so it made sense to use the same connector. Also, you could not damage anything if you incorrectly plugged analogue to digital and vice versa.

So...you can't damage anything?

Then why did the 2009 AES convention in New York include a paper detailing the dangers of interconnecting mic lines with 48 volt phantom power enabled and AES gear? Have a READ if you're interested.

Oh, and if you wonder how I knew, the 2009 AES in New York was the last convention I attended in person. Since my retirement I've let my membership lapse. However, I can tell you that the adoption of XLR-3a for AES was hotly debated at the time and NOT a foregone conclusion. I was one of many opposing the standard.

 

[moresound]

Seriously though -- I saw a guy put phantom to one of those once. A little puff of smoke and that was the end of it. That's why I'm confused about even the operating level of the thing.

True. Should keep the joking out of this thread the OP is having difficulties as it is.

 

[moresound]

Sorry, I would disagree with this.

Brass instruments radiate the low frequencies at right angles to the body, and only the highest frequencies come out of the bell.

I would go back a bit and capture the sound from the whole instrument.

The French Horn, for example, is best recorded by reflection rather than direct.

Have a god listen while someone plays the instrument and move around, listening carefully to the sound. Where it sounds bets to your ears is probably the best place the put the mic.

Good luck.

Yes - In a perfect recording situation in a proper recording studio I would go with the tried and true orchestral positioning of the microphone on all instruments. thou this is home recording and I don't think the OP has the greatest sounding room in which to record in.

Granted with the positioning of the microphone that I offered you will lose a bit of the low end warmth of the tuba - just seems like a good trade off for the best recording he could possibly achieve. And like you stated and I like to recommend - experiment with microphone positioning till you hear what you like.

I do about 50-50 of classical orchestras to big band/Jazz/zydeco/blues/funk.
Doing live gigs with the latter of the bands the horn sections are pretty rambunctious and don't stay in one spot for to long. Most of them have Audio-Technica wireless SDC's attached to their bells or in the case of the tuba a few have made a spider out of gaff tape and suspend the wireless SDC in the center of the bell.

I have never had a lack of low end out of those tubas!

 

[Lt. Bob]

John, if anyone is confusing a poor newbie on this forum it is you and I wish you would stop.

In an HR context probably 99.999% of XLRs are the three pin variety and carrying a balanced audio signal. This is usually mic level but I'm frequently at pains to point out that, particularly with high end and/or broadcast equipment, it's fairly normal to use the XLR-3 for line level as well.
.

^^^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^^

I spend my entire life doing this and I rarely see XLRs of 4 or 5 pin variety.
In the context of a newbie figuring out his interface an XLR is a 3 pin connector ..... it's just not gonna happen that he's gonna get anmy gear that uses anything else.