Stereo Delay....perception...how to fix it?

[sdp530]

Hey, I have been mixing for over a year and I have run into not so much a problem but an annoyance. I mostly mix hip hop but this could apply to any genre. When I am mixing in background dubs for emphasis on key rhymes or punch lines I like to put a stereo delay on it. It gives the key lines a thick and wide feel. I usually use anywhere from a 5 to 30ms delay between identical tracks panned left and right. Sometimes hard panned but most of the time not, just enough to give it a wider stereo feel. Now my problem is even though the left and right channel of the dub track is balanced power wise, the stereo perception is always dominate on the side that is not delayed. Maybe it is because my ears are hearing the left channel of the vocal dub being played milliseconds before the right channel, I dunno...

Anyways, I have tried different delay amounts but always get that unbalance stereo perception on the dubs. I have used two separate takes of the same dub and panned them out, that seems to work but I lose that real tight feel that a single dub provides.

Let me know if you have experienced this same problem or what you would do differently. How to take a single track of dubs and make it sound wide with a balanced stereo perception....

Thanks
-C

 

[BushmasterM4]

There are stereo expander and exciter plugins that may be your answere. I know Ozone3 has both and seems to work great, Ive used it as a final mix plugin on tunes Ive done and they do work.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Now my problem is even though the left and right channel of the dub track is balanced power wise, the stereo perception is always dominate on the side that is not delayed. Maybe it is because my ears are hearing the left channel of the vocal dub being played milliseconds before the right channel, I dunno...

It sounds like you are experiencing first hand the precidence effect, a.k.a. the Haas effect. This effect defines the fact that when two sounds of similar loudness and timbre are heard milliseconds apart, the human brain tends to assume the first one as being closer, and therefore perceives it as a bit louder, even if technically it isn't.

Just bump the gain on the delayed side a bit. Or, an alternative, let the perception happen, and use that as a good way to provide balance against some other track doing something else on the delayed side. Balance can be overall in the mix and not just between obvious tracks within the mix.

G.

 

[ecktronic]

It sounds like you are experiencing first hand the precidence effect,

G.

Yaaaa.

Also try recording the part twice and panning, always sounds better than the stereo delay thingymajiger.

Eck

 

[Freudian Slip]

It sounds like you are experiencing first hand the precidence effect, a.k.a. the Haas effect. This effect defines the fact that when two sounds of similar loudness and timbre are heard milliseconds apart, the human brain tends to assume the first one as being closer, and therefore perceives it as a bit louder, even if technically it isn't.

Just bump the gain on the delayed side a bit. Or, an alternative, let the perception happen, and use that as a good way to provide balance against some other track doing something else on the delayed side. Balance can be overall in the mix and not just between obvious tracks within the mix.

G.

Yep, first one heard is perceived as louder.
Several ways to combat it. Record another track and do the mirror image of what you did on the first for a very full sound or just pan those original tracks (my personal favorite).

You can also combat it some with the eq by making the delayed track brighter/harsher to increase it's perceived loudness. It can be a good way to go if headroom is an issue.

Glen has stated the easiest way though. Turn it up and use your ears not the meters.

F.S.