Step by step song orchestration...how do you do it...

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Vandy12

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This is a very subjective question, but there entire books on orchestration, so I am thinking of a good list of do's and don't's
and some basic beginning instruction would be great. Looking for something along these lines:

1. Listen to the melody and take pieces of the melody and use other instruments
to blend with melody at appropriate places.

2. Don't clutter a simple song with too much orchestration--like too many VST's, equalization, it can suck
the life out of the arrangement.

3. Look at the rhythms of the song and match them with the added instrumentation.

4. Try a practice piece and add a short melody snipped from four different instruments at various times.

5. Now take the same piece and use two instruments at a time in harmony or with newly created melodies to
blend as best you can and accent the main song.

6. Listen to how other songs have been orchestrated and how the added instruments interact
with the main song.

These are some of my total guesses on how to start to think about taking say for example a song written
with a guitar and vocals and figuring out which intruments to have in the studio to make a
completed song with multiple instruments. Deciding how many extras to use would be part of
the process.

Looking for a narrowed down list of general guidelines that will get the new orchestrater started.

No string quartets, symphonies, etc. Just how to orchestrate basic songs.

Thanks,

Vandy
 
Are you focusing on actual orchestration (for instrumental compositions) - or are you focusing on arranging (for creating instrumentaion around a pop/rock vocal track)???

These are two rather different things that would dictate different responses to your post and certainly different approaches.

While it is possible the terms orchestration and arrangement could be somewhat interchanged, for basic comparison, I would consider orchestration to be creating parts for various instruments, within a musical piece - normally involving more traditional orchestra sounds (oboes, flutes, violins, etc.) - whereas arranging is more traditionally considered taking a song (as an example, that perhaps starts as a vocal with acoustic guitar) and arrangeing a song structure (intro, bridge, etc.) and then creating instrumental parts to support that structure (piano during the verse, add a synth pad during the bridge, harmony vocals during the chorus,etc.)
 
To clarify...arranging for a vocal track...

Focusing on arranging (for creating instrumentation around a pop/rock vocal track).

A song arrangment my friend. A basic song with vocals. Not a full orchestra.

How to do it subtly and not overdo it, but make it stronger and sounding
better with maybe a volin part weaving in the middle or vocal
overlays in the middle, or a snippet of a sax part, an organ
humming in the background for a few measures, etc.

Basic Rules of engagement.
 
Sounds like you already have a few good guidelines set up. One thing I prefer to do is ditch the whole "orchestra" sound (i.e. dozens of violins/cellos) in favor of just one or two instruments playing that part instead. Always sounds a lot better to me. Full orchestra backing always sounds pretty cheesy to me in regular pop/rock/whatever songs and are much more fitted for when they are the focal point of a composition instead.
 
Was hoping for more specific info...

Obviously this is going to be a lot of experimenting, critical listening,
and very subjective from person to person. But I was hoping someone would
talk about something along the lines of "I like just a sax, cello, and violin
combined sound and then I take part of the melody, or play it an octave
above the melody for a few measures before the chorus." How to mix
instrument parts with song melody to enhance melody and overall
sound of the song with multiple instruments instead of just a guitar and
vocal. Basic guidelines and techniques.
 
That was quite an information out there...a nice read full of all the important points to remember while doing step by step orchestration.
 
Great list. Good orchestra can be really difficult to achieve. I like to use as many different sources as possible and layer them.
 
Guitaristic so far has the best answer. I've asked the question several times and several ways and guess no on is interested in sharing
how they arrange a song from scratch. I'll try somewhere else for the info and thanks for those who responded.
 
Song arrangements depend on many things - not the least of which is the genre and style of the song. A pop ballad would normally dictate a different arrangement concept than a heavy metal, guitar riff driven song.

I write, arrange, produce mostly in a country/country pop genre - so choice of instruments are more defined by the genre - however, regardless of the genre, I think the key to good arrangements is to support the melody and move the song forward. I'm not a fan of over orchestrated arrangments - but tasteful pads to fill in the background can be very effective.

What I mean is - the arrangment should build to create energy as the song moves along. Often an intro may include a guitar riff, supported by perhaps an acoustic guitar, and a relatively clean electic rhythm guitar, bass guitar, drums and maybe an organ (or other pad sound).

The first verse may cut down to just an acoustic and bass (maybe the drums with a basic groove to surrport the bass line. Then the second verse adds a fiddle part or a counter melody with a piano, etc. - and maybe a organ pad. The chorus maybe adds another guitar with some overdrive power chords. Maybe the last verse drops down to just a piano, bass and drums - and then the organ and the overdrive guitar kicks back in at the 2nd chorus.

The key is to bring different sounds in and out (to keep the arrangement interesting) - but always build (or reduce the dynamics) to support the melody. Much depends on what if the primary "hook" of the song. If the song is guitar hook driven - then the arrangment will likely be more sparce to not interfere with the guitar hook. However, if clever lyrics are the "hook" than the arrangment will likely need some conuter melodies to frame the lyrical hook.
 
I am a huge fan of film scores (over 60 CD's worth) so I've done my share of orchestrating in my writing.

For me, I tend to prefer the traditional orchestral insturments over synth pads or techno arpeggiations, but it really depends on the song and the feel I'm trying to achieve..

Here's a few quick things to consider when adding extra instrumentation to your songs.

1) Is it necessary? How is it a positive for the song?
2) Why is it there? What are you trying to achieve by adding this part?
3) Is it a unison/harmony of the main melody, or is it a counter melody?
4) Are you worried about pulling it off live? If so who's going to play it and which instrument are they not going to play during it?
5) If you're going for traditional intruments using a keyboard, know their limitations like how flutes can't play chords
6) Do not let the "orchestration" take over the show. The song still needs to be the focus, and that means vocals if you have them.
7) Be aware of your frequencies. Are the bass and those low cello parts competing for sonic room? Can you change the phrasing of a part to make them fit better. At the end of the day, you should be able to hear each instrument without having to concentrate on it. You shouldn't have to "listen for" the bass, in order to hear what's being played.
8) Listen closely to other examples and really try to understand why it works or not.

In songwriting... for me it all comes down to the song. Seems simple right? At the end of the day, can I sit down and play it on an acoustic in a coffee shop, just me and a my guitar?

As the song progresses you need to keep it interesting for the listener, by changing things up a bit, even if they don't know what you did.

For example, just because the tempo, key, and chord progression is the same for every verse, it does not mean that they need to be played the same way. Go from quarter notes on the hi-hats to 8th notes. Use the traditional chords in the first position for the first verse, and then switch to barre chords with a bit of overdrive for the second. In short, keep it interesting as if you were slowly pulling the listener along, fascinated to find out whats around the next corner. Sometimes the dynamic is the difference. have every thing drop out for a measure and then come in full force the following measure. Maybe in that final chorus guitar #2 switches to playing some counter melody instead of the regular chord progression. Things like this give the listener a little "ooo nice" moment. Make your songs breathe. Does it "feel" good when you listen to it? If it does, then it is good.

All of that being said, you have to use your ears as your guide, as we are in the business of sound. There is no magic formula or easy fix. Just keep plugging away at it, and like anything else it will become easier to do over time.

:guitar:
 
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Here is my crack at it, and I think the theory hold somewhat, but I use instruments as I would use a chord. For example if I am playing a D on the guitar, I may add notes to each instrument using the D chord. Another way is to use it to center around a melody to complement it. You can also use the 7ths theory and play a normal chord and use the Orchestra to play the 7ths. Use it a a filler like a bass line or a lead guitar.

However, if I understand your main point here is, don't just add it for no reason. I would agree with that.
 
Arranging and Orchestration doesn't have to be such a daunting experience and with a little work you can turn a few words hummed along to an acoustic strum into a "Hit" track.

I'm going to outline my process.

First things first the foundation of the track.

I usually find myself with a pen in one hand coffee in the other and paper in front of me at this stage its about keeping things as simple as possible. Grab your instrument of choice and start mapping the foundations of it all as well as you can.

So write out your lyrics and chords first of all this will be the basis for your entire work. As you play the song more and more you'll notice silly little things like pauses, breaks, rhythms that seem consistent no matter what way you choose to play it. I may have 40 different strumming paterns for the same song over the space of a day but come days end I notice that for instance I like to let the Dm at the end of bar 8 and 16 ring out or whatever. these little features will help you get a better vision of the song.

As you make a note of the chords, tempo, lyrics, key, and dynamics the mood soon begins to develop. This is your bench mark. This is the point from which all things grow. You want to be able to sum up the song pretty easily highlighting the main features.

For Example this is a song for my band in F# Minor with a strong dark theme, The final chorus feature a cresendo and a bridge key change to A lending a sense of hope before descending back into F#Minor leaving the piece almost shattered with pulsing hints the would lead well into a fast paced song following.

The next big step is questions. You need to ask yourself just where the piece will be played, Why it's been wrote, who its wrote for, etc. if its for your own ears just go nuts use whatever instruments and players you like to build it for you. If however its for an album or public performance you need to ask what your audience expects. If they've never seen timpani at your gigs would it be wise to bring them in? If however they expect ostentatious live shows with laser harps or hunting horns is a coffee house acoustic and vocal piece really what you want to deliver?

Now of course these are extreme examples but its still no harm to point them out. A lot of my originals have recurring themes, I write for a lot of brass but rarely use brass live because I haven't yet released any of these tracks. So this is the stage where you want to work out just what you will be using. Analyze the overall vision of the piece and pick instruments that reflect the tone. I wouldn't say never use A for B but the odds are a large thundering timpani crescendo even used live will steer your Acoustic love ballad to chart success.

When you know or have a very good idea what the overall vision for the track (or album as I find the case tends to be) is try to work out the common points in the arrangement. For instance, why have just one track with a piccolo when the rest have flutes? could you arrange this piece for flute aswell? unless of course your flautist can also play piccolo (which more often than not is the case). You will generally find players can jump between similar instruments but just because they can doesn't mean you need to take advantage of that either. If your sax player can play clarinet don't write for clarinet unless the clarinet is the instrument the song truely needs.

Get set in stone at this stage exactly what instruments you want.

For Pop / Rock tracks a common arrangement is;

Vocals,
Backing Vocals,
Rhythm Guitar (Electric or Acoustic)
Bass Guitar
Drums
Keyboard (Usually Piano, E. Piano, Rhodes or Hammond)
and More often than not a lead instrument, Sometimes the Guitar or Keyboard does the job.

When you've decided on the instrumentation get out your score. Its no harm getting out a blank sheet writing the instruments in and just putting down markings ie;

Bar: l 1 l bar 12 l bar 24
Vox l z l Verse 1 l Chorus (w/ cres. to ff)
B.Vox l z l z l Enter ooh's
Gtr. l Intro, light airy, l Solid strumming l cres. w/more layers
Bass. l z l Solid simple line l swap to more fluid, walking line
Drums l light w/brushes l solid w/rods l similar line, more tom work
Keys l melody line idea l chords l chords w/melody on vibraphone

You get the idea of course putting in chords where needed dynamics etc any markings you need.

Next step is the demo

after cueing the mandatory montage of the producer sitting at the mixer while the engineer pushes up the fader watching the producers nodding get more pronounced you can proceed to arranging your demo idea.

Get some quality musicians (or prepare your daw, either works) and start explaining your vision to them, give them as much music as you have. even if its just a hook in bar 39 and the rest is chords and help them feel the song. you can always lay down tracks (audio or midi) yourself and listen.

If I'm working solo, I record all the parts I need (audio or midi) and listen back if I have session players in I get them all in a room and ask them to play it.

This is the hard part, listening, when you have your ensemble, have them play (or play the track on your DAW) and take notes about EVERYTHING, The good the bad and the ugly theres no point lying to yourself here. you need to know if you should add an extra stab before the 103rd bar now. because unless every player knows its going to be there they'll play as though its not and it'll sound foreign.

You then need to record a demo of this and listen, when your happy with the arrangement you want to start moving towards the more ambient elements of the mix / project / song etc.

So get a copy of dots or chords or lyrics for every player that needs them. Maybe, as in most cases this will be the original session players or maybe a fully different lineup. Get them to practice and as you listen more to the song you may decided that the sound of a car engine would be perfect, or bells mimicing the vocal line during the bridge would suit, score this and prepare your DAW. At this point you want to be giving each player as much of a musical cue as possible so lay down everything you can for them. ie. get the click ready, a scratch track for the drummer and then record away.

Hope that helped you at least a little bit.

Edit: Even after all my careful spacing the bit that outlines each pieces job before scoring didn't come out too well, I'm going to add l 's so you can see it clearer
 
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