Starting sophomore album - first song - Knot In Your Stomach

[PoeticIntensity]

So my band, Tiny Boats put out an album in 2014. I think my mom may have listened to it. That, however, was not good enough. For our second album, if possible, I'd like to get my dad on board, and I figured reaching out to you guys might actually help that happen.

I'm working now in a completely different DAW (from Mixbus to Studio One), as well as OS, (Linux to Windows), with completely different plugins, instruments, etc... I really could use as many ears on this as possible.

At this point, nothing is in stone. Arrangement, instrumentation, harmonies, mix, even the lyrics are subject to change. Right now, I'm really digging the mix (except for lead vocals - they're not final), and I'm wondering if anyone can hear any potential problems in that area, too.

The only thing we *know* is gonna change is the lead vocal. As it is, it's a scratch track, that's why they're mixed low. Everything else is being considered for final tracks.

So.. Yeah. Give it a spin and let me know what you think. Thanks, guys.

Tiny Boats - Knot In Your Stomach

Tiny Boats - Knot In Your Stomach (revision 2)

 

[gecko zzed]

I like the song, the arrangement, and the recording of it. I note your comments about the lead vocal. When it gets redone, maybe bring it forward some. To me, it sounds as if it is behind the music. Thgis maybe because it is only a scratch track.

 

[rayc]

Jason,
It's good. I actually like the vocal level as it is but can understand the need to replace & push forward.
The electric guitar sounds a bit high passed/fizzy for me. Given the acoustics occupy a lot of the high ground I'd like more meat from the electrics.
Nice mix thus far & cool song.

 

[ido1957]

So my band, Tiny Boats put out an album in 2014. I think my mom may have listened to it. That, however, was not good enough. For our second album, if possible, I'd like to get my dad on board, and I figured reaching out to you guys might actually help that happen.

I'm working now in a completely different DAW (from Mixbus to Studio One), as well as OS, (Linux to Windows), with completely different plugins, instruments, etc... I really could use as many ears on this as possible.

At this point, nothing is in stone. Arrangement, instrumentation, harmonies, mix, even the lyrics are subject to change. Right now, I'm really digging the mix (except for lead vocals - they're not final), and I'm wondering if anyone can hear any potential problems in that area, too.

The only thing we *know* is gonna change is the lead vocal. As it is, it's a scratch track, that's why they're mixed low. Everything else is being considered for final tracks.

So.. Yeah. Give it a spin and let me know what you think. Thanks, guys.

Tiny Boats - Knot In Your Stomach

Hi Jason, good to hear some more Tiny Boats
I'm listening on crappy laptop speakers so there's no low tone to speak of but the highs seem good and the blend level is great.
Good use of "variety" in instrumentation - makes it an interesting song not the same same all the way through.

I'm not fussy about the vocal arrangement and since you mentioned it's going to be changed I'll add my 2 cents....
1. The singer has that cool ability to sing low then push it up to a shout level. Lots of pop/rock tunes do this (sort of an octave jump).
2. The vocals hit me hard right off the bat. It starts at the top of the melody range. It had no build up, and I was "tired of it" very quickly.
3. I would prefer either a low to high transition (described above) at varying intervals, or low(er) continual with harmonies added to pump it up at a later point. The singer can hit high notes without an effort, so harmonies would be a piece of cake from the sounds of it.
4. The soft/loud parts sort of mimic what I'm talking about vocally.

Hope this is somewhat helpful, looking forward to hearing the next CD!

 

[CMolena]

I thought that the vocals are really good! I think its even worth to keep them in the final mix, because they sound really good.

The only thing I'm hearing is that the acoustic guitar is a little bit ou of tune? Maybe is just me.

 

[dobro]

The vocal: the quieter bits are tending to get masked - 2.26, for instance.

The loud opening wing drums: they work just fine until the drumkit comes in and then they start getting masked.

Really nice tune, really nice mix. You're close.

 

[VomitHatSteve]

+1 on the vocals being too quiet (but you knew that; they're scratch)

I'd bump down the acoustic and keys when things get loud. They dominate the mix but really feel like they should be background instruments at that point.

Good to see more stuff from you!

 

[PoeticIntensity]

Jason,
It's good. I actually like the vocal level as it is but can understand the need to replace & push forward.
The electric guitar sounds a bit high passed/fizzy for me. Given the acoustics occupy a lot of the high ground I'd like more meat from the electrics.
Nice mix thus far & cool song.

Very nice catch, Ray. The electrics are indeed high-passed, and you're right. I think it's a mistake considering the acoustic. I'll see what I can do. Thanks, man.

Hi Jason, good to hear some more Tiny Boats
I'm listening on crappy laptop speakers so there's no low tone to speak of but the highs seem good and the blend level is great.
Good use of "variety" in instrumentation - makes it an interesting song not the same same all the way through.

I'm not fussy about the vocal arrangement and since you mentioned it's going to be changed I'll add my 2 cents....
1. The singer has that cool ability to sing low then push it up to a shout level. Lots of pop/rock tunes do this (sort of an octave jump).
2. The vocals hit me hard right off the bat. It starts at the top of the melody range. It had no build up, and I was "tired of it" very quickly.
3. I would prefer either a low to high transition (described above) at varying intervals, or low(er) continual with harmonies added to pump it up at a later point. The singer can hit high notes without an effort, so harmonies would be a piece of cake from the sounds of it.
4. The soft/loud parts sort of mimic what I'm talking about vocally.

Hope this is somewhat helpful, looking forward to hearing the next CD!

Thanks for the listen, and I really appreciate the thoughtful insight, Gerry. I'll take this note to the singer and see what he says about not starting high right out of the gate. Good stuff, brother. Thank you.

I thought that the vocals are really good! I think its even worth to keep them in the final mix, because they sound really good.

The only thing I'm hearing is that the acoustic guitar is a little bit ou of tune? Maybe is just me.

Yup. I hear it too, CMolena. I thought the acoustic was out of tune, too, especially at the end. Is that what you're hearing? I'm gonna have to push to get that re-recorded, because if someone other than me can hear it, it's probably not in tune. I swear, though, almost nobody notices that. I was beginning to think my ears were going out on me. Thanks for the listen, and the comment!

The vocal: the quieter bits are tending to get masked - 2.26, for instance.

The loud opening wing drums: they work just fine until the drumkit comes in and then they start getting masked.

Really nice tune, really nice mix. You're close.

Dobro! Thanks for commenting, man. Yes.. The wing drums are meant to dissipate into the first chorus. The thunderous bass accompanying them is almost completely gone by the time the drums enter. About 8 measure later, the wing drums are gone. Would you consider that a bad thing? Is the dissolving too obvious? I really don't think it'd be a good idea to keep them there throughout the whole song, as they do compete in the same space the drums are in, and I think drums create a more interesting rhythmic aspect than the repeating of the wing drums... Thoughts?

+1 on the vocals being too quiet (but you knew that; they're scratch)

I'd bump down the acoustic and keys when things get loud. They dominate the mix but really feel like they should be background instruments at that point.

Good to see more stuff from you!

Thanks, Steve! It's good to hear from you! Yes... The acoustic guitar is the star of the show until we get final vocals recorded. I played with the guitar level more than any other instrument. In order to keep this tune more of a "folk" song instead of whatever else it could be, we had to keep the acoustic in the fore-front. Perhaps it is a bit too loud later on. I'll re-visit it and see if it needs to be brought down.

Thanks for the comments, folks! It's good to hear this community is still a dependable source of great music and mix info.

More to come later...

 

[dobro]

Dobro! Thanks for commenting, man. Yes.. The wing drums are meant to dissipate into the first chorus. The thunderous bass accompanying them is almost completely gone by the time the drums enter. About 8 measure later, the wing drums are gone. Would you consider that a bad thing? Is the dissolving too obvious? I really don't think it'd be a good idea to keep them there throughout the whole song, as they do compete in the same space the drums are in, and I think drums create a more interesting rhythmic aspect than the repeating of the wing drums... Thoughts?

Yeah, I do stuff like that occasionally myself. But more recently, I just don't like the sound of things getting masked. It generates a 'noise without separation' thing that I don't like. It's just a personal preference for me - I really like things to be distinctly hearable - so if I was working on this one, I'd either be trying to make the wing drums clearly heard right up until the point where they disappear from the mix, or I'd be arranging/muting things differently so they weren't getting masked.

 

[PoeticIntensity]

Okay... I spent most of today incorporating pretty much all of what everyone suggested, except vocals, as we're going to re-record them.

1. Acoustic guitars were brought down a bit, and high-passed a bit more.
2. Electric guitars were allowed more beef-range, and brought up slightly.
3. Wing drums were taken out completely when drum kit comes in.
4. A whole lot more tweaking general levels of everything. Bass was made much more present, though not much louder, as I thought it lacked definition.

Thoughts?

Revision 2 (2015-07-19)

 

[dobro]

Yeah, it's stronger. Bass is nice, yeah?

 

[PoeticIntensity]

Yeah, it's stronger. Bass is nice, yeah?

Yeah, dude. Thanks. This bass has been a beast to work with... It has a solo, of sorts, during the slow-down part, and it seems to me that it keeps getting way too loud on notes, then too soft... Hopefully this mix tamed it some, while bringing out a bit more definition of the instrument attack and body.

Again - thanks for the comments and listens!

 

[ido1957]

Yeas the bass is really well defined on this last mix. Rest sounds good no other comments at this juncture...

 

[TripleM]

Mix #2 is better. The guitars sound fuller and the bass is less rumbly. I like the rhythm ideas. That sounded cool.

The acoustic guitar sounds a little cheap. A little too much on the twangy end.

When you get a real vocal, I'd bring it up a little bit. I know it's a scratch, but it's sitting back a little too far.

The distorted guitars get a little buried. They're kind of "there but not noticed."

Even on mix #2, the bass still has some boomy frequency - maybe around 100hz or so?

I'm being a little too critical. It's sounding pretty good to me. Love the performances. Even the scratch vocal.

 

[BroKen_H]

Didn't hear the first mix, but the 2nd is great. Clear, clean. Some of the toms are a bit muddish (like the triple at 2:02), but the kick really hits.
The first bit of the intro is really an attention grabber.
Whoever is singing for you has a very nice voice.
Great song. I like the thunder in the beginning and kind of noticed it was gone after a while, but never really caught when...

 

[jimistone]

I like this tune. I listed to the 2nd one...I guess the remix?
Anyway, I thought everything sounded good. The bass guitar sounds exceptionally good. It was mentioned the guitars were fizzy, but you may have already remedied that because they sounded great IMO. The vocal is outstanding. Good singing, on pitch, and great melody. The only nit I have is that the vocal is almost buried in the mix. with a great vocal like that I think you should bump up the level and let it soar.
great tune man!

 

[4tracker]

I like the song. Great vocal melody, and the voice sounds like Perry Farrell

Was the recording done at home? It sounds like every instrument is up front (no separation) fighting to be the lead. I liked the acoustic lower for that reason (and as someone mentioned it sounds twangy). That's probably part of the reason the vocal seems buried. It is also a very loud mix so I assume this has been mastered already with a limiter? I'm listening in HD 580 precision headphones and had to turn it down quite a bit, but even then there's a pumping or compression type distortion I hear.

 

[famous beagle]

Great song and great performances! I really enjoyed this a lot. I think the instruments sound great and don't really have any criticisms there. The vocals sounded great too (especially for a scratch track) and had a great energy. The only thing that bothered me a bit was a lack of intelligibility; I couldn't understand most of the words. I know they'll be more up in the final version, but I don't know if that alone will cure it; it seems as though it may be more of a stylistic thing. I dunno, though. That's only my .02, and what the hell do I know?

Thanks for sharing!

 

[PoeticIntensity]

Yeas the bass is really well defined on this last mix. Rest sounds good no other comments at this juncture...

Rock on, brother. Thanks for the listen!

Mix #2 is better. The guitars sound fuller and the bass is less rumbly. I like the rhythm ideas. That sounded cool.

The acoustic guitar sounds a little cheap. A little too much on the twangy end.

When you get a real vocal, I'd bring it up a little bit. I know it's a scratch, but it's sitting back a little too far.

The distorted guitars get a little buried. They're kind of "there but not noticed."

Even on mix #2, the bass still has some boomy frequency - maybe around 100hz or so?

I'm being a little too critical. It's sounding pretty good to me. Love the performances. Even the scratch vocal.

Yeah.. We're probably gonna have to re-record the acoustic on this one. I tried to make it sound the best I could, but ... something is definitely off. It's a Martin X-series, but it's a very jangly Martin. It's definitely sounded better. ... and yes. Real vocal will be much more defined. I'll take a listen to the bass... It might just be a fader issue. It seems quite loud listening to it again with fresh ears.

I always appreciate your comments, Trip. Thank you!

Didn't hear the first mix, but the 2nd is great. Clear, clean. Some of the toms are a bit muddish (like the triple at 2:02), but the kick really hits.
The first bit of the intro is really an attention grabber.
Whoever is singing for you has a very nice voice.
Great song. I like the thunder in the beginning and kind of noticed it was gone after a while, but never really caught when...

Right on, man! Thank you! I'll have to re-visit the toms. They certainly aren't as defined as the kick is, for sure. Perhaps just not loud enough... Good catch. ..and yes.. I love the lead singer's voice, too. ...and this was a one-take scratch. The final vocal will be louder, and much, much better. He's kind of a perfectionist. Thanks, Broken H!

I like this tune. I listed to the 2nd one...I guess the remix?
Anyway, I thought everything sounded good. The bass guitar sounds exceptionally good. It was mentioned the guitars were fizzy, but you may have already remedied that because they sounded great IMO. The vocal is outstanding. Good singing, on pitch, and great melody. The only nit I have is that the vocal is almost buried in the mix. with a great vocal like that I think you should bump up the level and let it soar.
great tune man!

Thanks, Jimi. ...and yes. Vocal is buried because it's a scratch vocal. The final vocal will be up front, for sure. Not sure when we'll get around to tracking it, though. We're working on the instrumentation for #2 right now, and will probably get 4 more songs (or so) done before we start on final vox.

Thanks for the kudos, man! I really like this music, too.

I like the song. Great vocal melody, and the voice sounds like Perry Farrell

Was the recording done at home? It sounds like every instrument is up front (no separation) fighting to be the lead. I liked the acoustic lower for that reason (and as someone mentioned it sounds twangy). That's probably part of the reason the vocal seems buried. It is also a very loud mix so I assume this has been mastered already with a limiter? I'm listening in HD 580 precision headphones and had to turn it down quite a bit, but even then there's a pumping or compression type distortion I hear.

Thanks for the listen, 4tracker. Tracking was done at ArtCitySound.com (smirk). I own and operate the studio, and technically it is in a home, but it's a purpose-built 1000 sq-ft facility. I'll definitely be re-visiting the acoustic... As mentioned before, something was off when we tracked it. ...and yes. It's being put through a limiter, but it's not pushing too much. Only 1-2 db at peaks. It's a quick and very dirty master. The final will be mastered professionally. Maybe it'd be a good idea to post just the mix, pre-limiter...?

Not quite sure what to do about everything fighting for the lead... It could be the dirty mastering job... I'll see if I can't get the un-limited version up to see if that helps.

Thanks for the listen and comment, 4tracker!

 

[PoeticIntensity]

Great song and great performances! I really enjoyed this a lot. I think the instruments sound great and don't really have any criticisms there. The vocals sounded great too (especially for a scratch track) and had a great energy. The only thing that bothered me a bit was a lack of intelligibility; I couldn't understand most of the words. I know they'll be more up in the final version, but I don't know if that alone will cure it; it seems as though it may be more of a stylistic thing. I dunno, though. That's only my .02, and what the hell do I know?

Thanks for sharing!

You rock, Beagle. Thanks for the listen and comment. ...and yes, the vocal sounds like crap because nothing has been done to it (except maybe some compression and verb, but maybe not... can't remember), and I didn't care about making it sound good. For an example of his finished vocal and what it probably will sound like, have a listen to our first album at the link below. (shameless plug, but it seemed relevant)

Tiny Boats - The Broken Vessels

Thanks again for the listen and comment.

Keep them coming... All comments are being considered, and the mix is being updated. Also - we're getting close to posting song #2 on this album for your consideration, although it will also most likely have a scratch vocal as well.

Gotta say - this forum never disappoints. Love you guys. *sheds single tear*