starting equipment?

  • Thread starter Thread starter gmiller1122
  • Start date Start date
gmiller1122

gmiller1122

Addled but happy
Ok, here we go...

I am a self-taught musician of 14 years and, thanks to a great new job, I have time and money to spend on my hobby. My only aspiration is to continue writing songs and make simple but decent recordings for friends & family.

My interests lie in the Acoustic styles (Folk, Blues) - I am a bit of a purist, though not anti-tech by any means. I owned a Tascam 424 MKII, but sold it a few years ago -- I didn't have the patience or time.

Here's what I have: two acoustic guitars (w/Dean Markley pickup), a Zoom 505 multi-effects, a bunch of harmonicas, an AKG D65S mic, a used Yamaha keyboard (early PSR series), and a used 5-pc. drum set (new heads coming soon). I use a Fender KXR 100 as a glorified PA system/amp (I really like it, so please be kind!) and have a nice casette deck for mixing down. Yes, I like things VERY simple!

Here's what I'm planning to buy: 2-3 more mics, Fender Tele w/amp, monitors, compressor & other effects, and, of course, recording equipment. Which brings us to the question:

I'm considering two options - analog and digital:
1. - Tascam 424 MKII or MKIII, or 488 MKII (used or new)
(I do all tracks myself, but when friends come over, I'd also like to do SOME live recording)
2. - A digital recorder (I've read great things about the Tascam 788 -- any suggestions?)
- A CDRW drive and new soundcard (I have an HP Pavillion with Pentium III to use exclusively for this and prefer burning my own CDs to paying someone to do it).

Obviously, I really don't know that much. What more would I need for either option? Also, I've read mixed reviews of Cakewalk and other software programs. Is it worth my time considering that this will be for very simple, but clean recording? (I don't mind learning some new things, but don't want to spend countless hours in search of the 'cleanest' sound.)

As for a budget, I'd like to keep the whole recording package to around $1500.

Thanks so much for being patient and reading all of this! Any and all advice is very much appreciated. Also, if any of this is confusing, let me know and I'll try to clarify.

Thanks!

G
 
Here's an idea,send me the 1500.00 and I'll invest it for you and in 7 years you'll get back 7500.00 guaranteed!(or until I sell 1 of my songs!)
Check out N-track recording software,easy to use in-expensive and no huge learning curve.
A good sound card,and MOST important of all, near-field
passive or active monitors to check out your mixes.
 
Thanks for the advice!

Well, that sounds easy enough. Then, I can just record, mixdown and burn CDs all on the PC, right?

What about compression? Do I still need that or does the software do that?

G

p.s. Do you have any of your songs online? What do you use?
 
I record to Adats and when I do try to record to pc, I use CakewalkPro9. However,I use outboard compression and effects.
I have about a zillion-gazillion songs I have written and recorded and have not uploaded not 1 damn song! Why? The few times I uploaded a song on a MP3 format it sounds sooo
crappy I wind up removing it. It will sound great on car,boombox,home stereo,walkman etc but as SOON as I put it
on pc D@MN it sounds like noise coming from a steel-melting factory in downtown New Jersey!
However,this weekend,I'm going to try something dark and secretive to make my jammies sound at least decent. When
I'm finished I'll post a link in the "MP3 Clinic" forum of this BBS and you and every-1 can trash it! :)
Peace & Good Luck in your venture.
Mr.Q
 
So if I went with nTrack, for example, the ONLY other things I would need are monitors and a soundcard?

(I know other things would help, I'm sure, but could I begin recording with just those items?)
 
Yeah you could use just that but, IMHO, to have an external mixer is great. I prefer knobs and stuff I can touch. How many tracks are you looking to do and what budget range are you in?
 
Thanks for your response, Wally...

I am looking to do about 4-8 tracks -- very acoustic, VERY basic stuff. 5-pc. drum set, 1 or 2 guitars, harmonica, and vocals. Nothing more. (As Thoreau said, 'simplify, simplify')...

I am not at all interested in MIDI, synths, or drum machines. It's just not my thing - never will be. THAT is my worst nightmare...getting into digital recording, then realizing that I need to spend another $2000 and 2 years of my life learning MIDI stuff! (I want to work on songs, not programs...)

As for budget, I'd like to get started w/$1500-2000 worth of recording equipment. Then I can build on from there.

And so the question goes...analog or digital?

Thanks again!
 
I was a lot like you when I started into home recording. I only "needed" eight tracks. I just wanted to be able to arrange and expand on my songs. I ended up with a serious case of Track Expansion Syndrome. This is when your ideas for your songs start expanding faster than your multitrack and your wallet can follow. You think, "Yeah this song sounds great with just vocals, stereo guitar, bass, drums, backup vocals, keyboard, and percussion. But what it really needs is a string quartet and a horn section!" My solution? Get yourself into a recording program like N-Track, Cubase, Cakewalk, etc. I personally use Cubase. I have 64 tracks to expand my ideas to (although your computer's performance will be the ultimate judge on how much T.E.S. you can afford). By the time you outgrow this setup, it will probably be time for you to buy a new computer anyway...which means better performance! Personally, I believe that for most people this is THE way to record your music. It was for me. But, opinions will definately vary as they do on just about everything. Good luck! Let us know how everything turns out!
 
Track expansion aside...

...I disagree that computer recording is THE WAY to go for most people. Maybe if most people are comfortable with computers and handling crashes, but unfortunately that is not the current reality. Computer Recording is simply NOT as stable as tape-based digital or of course, analog....

For people easily frustrated by computer "glitches", computer recording is NOT the way to go...

Bruce
 
CMiller -

Thanks for the reply! I haven't completely ruled out using PC software. I do have a PC I can use just for this purpose and I do like messing around w/programs at times.

As for wanting more tracks, that is a fear of mine as well. I'm sure someday I will get to that point. I figure when I do, I can just sell my Tascam on ebay (or give it to my nephew, etc.)....

Of the mixing software out there, I'm getting a sense the nTRack is the easiest to use (my kinda program).

Anyone else have an opinion?
 
BTW....

...regarding number of tracks - you can do a helluva lot with 24 tracks ya know.... not every little single creative idea HAS to go on a track - some ideas shouldn't even be recorded - experiment, then if it doesn't work, erase it!

Part of the problem with infinite tracks is that no one makes a sound decision anymore -- aww, throw it down, we'll see if it works in the mix.... at mix-down time, you end up with 128 tracks of half-baked ideas and you've lost sight of where you wanted the song to be in the first place!


Bruce
 
CMiller -

Thanks for the reply! I haven't completely ruled out using PC software. I do have a PC I can use just for this purpose and I do like messing around w/programs at times.

As for wanting more tracks, that is a fear of mine as well. I'm sure someday I will get to that point. I figure when I do, I can just sell my Tascam on ebay (or give it to my nephew, etc.)....

Of the mixing software out there, I'm getting a sense the nTRack is the easiest to use (my kinda program). As Bruce points out, it seems the more complex the program, the more CRASHES you'll experience. I have very little patience for that and hate having to call Tech. Support lines.

Bruce, I'm curious as to what you use -- you're analog, right?
 
Computer recording doesn't sound like the way to go for your stuff, but that would be up to you. If you wanted to be able to do those "live" recordings withy our buds, then you'd need a multi input soundcard. Monitors are key, and I wouldn't skimp on cash there. I'd check out the BR-8 if you wanted to get a really "clean" sound. It's a portable 8 track like the Tascam 8 track portastudio. I've never tried the Tascam, so it oculd kill the BR-8, but the BR-8 was pretty good for it's price tag in my opinion.

If you do go computer-based here are my recommendations for your $1500.

Sound card: Guillemot ISIS 8x4 (You can find these on e-bay for inbetween $150-$250) 8 ins, 4 outs, very quiet, has a breakoput box with all the A/D converters in it. Works great.

Monitors: Event PS-5's or PS-6's http://www.musiciansfriend.com/ex/shop/rec/010214115354152163206203135423?pid=601576
$400-$600 depending, look on eBay. Good sound, highly regarded as a good buy. If you wanted to go passive the Yorkville YSM-1's are very highly recommended by people on this board, and if you can find them are around $200 for the pair. Then you'd also need a reference amp though. Hafler makes a 2x50 I believe for around $200. Either way its about the same money.

Microphones: Very subjective depending, but I'd probably buy a Rode NT-1 ($150-200) and a few SM-57's($70-80 a piece)

Mixer: I'd probably buy a Behringer. Watch that get flamed to all hell by other people on this board, but I still think they are awesome for their price-to-performance ratio. Personally I need sliders, so I'd get the MX-1604A which is their cheapest one with sliders. 4 mic pres, 4 stereo channels, and a stereo bus. It's around $200. You could also go for the MX-2004A which has 8 mic pres, and inserts on al the channels for $300.

Software: If you like N-Track go for it, personally I hate it. I don't know how much time or effort you want to put into the program, so it is very subjective. I've found Sonic Foundry Vegas to be a very easy learn. It's like $400 though, so it makes a dent in your funds. You can also try Cool Edit Pro which is antoher N-Track like thing. Another option is Cubase or anything else like that. I'd go with N-Track first and establish a basis in the software. They all are relatively similar, just some are more powerful and in-depth then others.

That brings you pretty close in the money range, and it also leaves a little left over for cables and such (depending).

CMiller is right that 8 tracks is pretty low. I probably use an average of 16-24 in my stuff which is relatively simple. (drums take 5 or 6, guitars take 3 or 4 (sometimes up to 8 or 9), vocals are 3 or 4, bass is on 1 or 2 (DI ansd Mic'ed), and a couple stereo pairs of ambiances and other stuff. Sometimes more, sometimes less. I wouldn't limit myself to 8, 16 is better, but still is limited. 24 would be fine, but I sincerely doubt you're going to go for a 2" tape machine (or any of those new digital 24 track things that all seem to be taking over advertising space).

Just my thoughts.

Jake
 
One more thing (you guys posted while I was typing feverishly). The carshes Bruce talks about aren't going to happen more necessarily in the more complex programs. It is sometimes because of the fact that the programs were ported to PC from Mac, making them buggy. That can be solved by using a PC made program. Some are: Nuendo (steinberg), Vegas (sonic foundry) or any of those free ones (and many otheres for that matter). These crashes also won't need calls to Tech. support usually. They just clsoe the program and you have to reopen it. Save often. They aren't that big of a deal. To boot I use Logic which is the most notorious for it's crashes, and I got over it pretty quickly, even though I used to have no patience for it, you just get kind of accustomed to it.
Jake
 
gmiller1122 said:
CMiller -
Bruce, I'm curious as to what you use -- you're analog, right?
Click to expand...

Nope - 24-track digital (XT20 ADATs) with an analog 8-buss Mackie. Full gear list at my site....

Bruce
 
I didn't post that Bruce.

Anyway, I'll agree that computer crashes aren't for everyone. I'll also agree that the number of tracks doesn't mean better tracks. I think that's all pretty obvious. Other than that, I think it is THE way to go. It's extremely economical and extremely flexible. Non linear recording IS the way of the future (it's the way of the now), and it is going to continue to get better and easier to use at a lower and lower cost. For a creative person of limited income, I don't think it can be beat.
 
Wow, all your suggestions help so much. Thanks for putting my mind at ease.

I see nTrack has a free demo to download, so I'll check that out.

JAke, I'm curious as to why you hate it. Is it too limited or not user-friendly, etc?

I'm more torn than ever, but this is all very helpful. Thanks, folks!
 
I down-loaded the N-track software a coupla' months ago,and it is truly a simple and easy way to record to pc. Mind you,
I am an ABSOLUTE computer IDIOT, in all aspects (hence, the reason I 'cord to ADATS),but I did a simple 4 track recording,using drum-machine,bass,keys and guitar onto N-track and it came out pretty decent. I did not use none of the efx that comes with the software( 5 efx;chorus,flange reverb,delay and pitch)as I used my outboard gear for signal processing. But in summation, if I can use N-track
and produce a decent recording,ANYBODY can do the same!
Good Luck and have fun!
Mr.Q
 
CMiller said:
I didn't post that Bruce.
Click to expand...
Sorry C... you're right - bad editing on my part... :eek:
(but it does say "Originally posted by gmiller1122" above that clip anyways...) ;)

Bruce
 
I tried N-Track when first starting out, and it was pretty limited for what I wanted to do. I don't know, i just didn't like the way everything was set up. I love Logic, and that is apparently one of the most confusing programs made. I'm weird, I bet N-Track would be fine for you.
Jake
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top