"stars" succeed with weak songs - WHY?

Jeff, thanks for the comments. Your points are well taken, however, I still think they are flawed. #1 - you equate signing a record deal with garnering airplay and getting a fair push from the label. Plenty of artists succeed without either or at least from a grassroots push from fans earned by the music not the hype. Jewel's debut effort comes to mind - two years out of the gate before breaking big. You think Atlantic kept the faith 6 months down the road with little success? No way.

#2 - you equate signing a record deal with having a good understanding of the business side of music. No mean spirit intended, but that's laughable. The highway to fame is littered with bankable stars that winded up with bread crumbs due solely to ignorance.

#3 - and I believe the most important point. I think you've got give some credit to the record buying public who have the free will to choose their purchases - something that everyone here clings to as their solution. Does a radio single or heavy video rotation cause me to run out and buy their product? Not unless I like what I hear. I'm sure you'd give the same answer. Most people would. So, I've come full circle again and maintain my orginal comment. Tastes are relative. Choose wisely.
 
ha ha ha haha ha ha ha ha haha ha h ah ah ah a

this is great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!i love this!!!!!!i agree with everyone and disagree with anyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we are all wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!who cares???!!!!!!!!!!!!!i can't help but really side with jvasey,crEEK,sorry.although you create a fabulous argument.are you a lawyer?!!!!!this is wonderful,i sit and try to tell the people around me about payola,the nonexistent status of "artists"in the industry.they don't seem to wanna hear it?or maybe ALL people have slipped into complacency!!!a good example is i have a few hardcore feminist friends(or they used to be)they now listen to the typical mysogenistic gangsta rap and think the song is funny ,even the use of theb**** word,whereas that would send some into a frenzy,call em on it now?the get a glazed look in their face and say"who cares anymore?",ok,bad point,needless to say ,i know america is synonymous with pop culture,what's funny is "pop culture" now!!!!hwere i lived in s.f. for 15 yrs.starting in 1987,around'87,serious "hardcore"freaks had their bodies covered in tatoos,had their nipples and tongues pierced,i mean i was playing in a few bands there and was used to this scene,but it was far away from any record industry,any corporation.punk rock even,back in the 80's had gone into this obscure sort of form.now,what people call"punk"these days is really the updated bubblegum pop stars monkees with distortion.tatoos and piercings have become so trendy and normal,that you kind of stick out by looking completely untouched by any trend.i work in a regular day job,which forces me to see some really noremal bland people"non-artists",if you will,these people in their "party clothes"all pretty much have the same tattoos inthe same places,the same piercings,same with alternative!!!"ALTERNATIVE?"ha ha ha ,remember,in 1983 or so?r.e.m. used to be "alternative college rock",now people try to use that expression that falls into that catgory of commercial washed over blandness.ALTERNATIVE TO WHAT?????????????!!!alternative music???wouldn't that be the sound of a vaccuum cleaner overdubbed with a telephone ring? it would have to be serious;ly non-music to have to step into the arena of alternative music,thus i digress.i have definitely lost more hope,than what you guys say.i mean,by all means DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES ,to not feed into it,sh*t i will still play music the way i like it and not care who likes it.i like it.it feels good.but i have given up on rock and roll and american music and all that b.s.,not only is rock dead,but it also smells funny.too bad.unfortunate,that unless you look like a model (america's idea of one) you will not ever be thought of as potential for mass sales"stick to songwriting".you guys ever see that company "TAXI"?that has those listings for what bands a&r guys want?they want you to sound like a bad impersonation of a bad version of a bad impersonation of the original thing,and looks are a must.it's a good thing that the musicians that e=were in my band ten years ago made these self destructive moves that nevcer got anywhere close to success,or i would be far more jaded.by the way BTW what does IMHO stand for?pardon my ignorance. i am completely in agreement with everyone one this one.you all at least clued into this sick culture we are in now!!1
 
I'd like to make one small point here - in 1986 the world passed the point where the living outweighed the dead. i.e. the poulation has reached the point that we outnumber all previous people who have lived on the planet.

You could say that of all the singer/guitarists that have ever lived 99% are alive today competing with you.

At this exact moment I would estimate that there are 2000 ADATs rolling (let alone the 24trks, DAW's etc) -- all trying for that great pie in the sky - a hit record.

When I started out playing in Sydney in 1966 there would have been approx 20 - 30 full time bands, now there are 2K - 3K.

There were around 4 or 5 studios, now every street has one that's better.

we can't all be stars and knocking those who have made it through the shit is just sour grapes.

Cheers
John :)
 
Well said John. And you made a point I was alluding too earlier when I talked about a "screening process". Even if you don't agree with everything I've said, I think we could all agree that no artist (at least the vast majority of artists) is delivered a deal on a silver platter. They worked hard to get were they are.

Now, mojovoodo you brought up a very interesting point. What about those bands that for years were considered underground / outsiders / small time and suddenly they have a breakout single that goes top 40? You've been listening to them since their inception and bought up everything they ever touched, but suddenly "your little secret" is front page news. It seems you people want to crucify them for being sellouts. All b/c radio found out what you knew all along? I think that's unfair. It's okay to have an opinion but at least be consistent.
 
i have to agree with creek
i'm nearly 40 and hate all those boybands
but lemme put it this way
Do you think music business can goon if it has only difficult music for musicians to buy?
and how many copies we all buy per year?
this is the real world ,like it or not you gottalive with it
 
crucify anyone?for selling out?what?i am not one of those people that points their finger at anyone and says"hey,you corporate rock sellout!!"in fact i am so inconsistent and contradictory!!i do get irritated with these artists that say they have artistic integrity and that they would never sellout,i mean it was my belief that we all get on stage to perform and be seen,so who's gonna say no to alot of money and a lot of attention?me personallyi have written songs with my songwriting partner/friend/drummer for years with every intention of having commercial /sellout /mass appeal.and i have no problem admitting it.as the original thought in the beginning with the thread was saying it was clear what would make a hit,hook,catchy chorus,so forth,there was that distinct line between a pop song and a"different "song,and as that individual,and y'all have pointed out is that fine line is no longer there and it is in a big part due to marketing.i like the old style of popular songwriting,i like verse/chorus/verse/bridge/chorus songs,provided that the chords are beautiful and melody nice and words somewhat thoughtful,but that's just my small opinion.i still like to leave things open and be versatile,i like being a chameleon,and playing what sometimes feels appropriate,and vice versa,but ,don't get me wrong,i could never play something i didn't feel 100%,and still we can all sense timing,but oops still going off about irelevant things. i think you guys misunderstood me.i was trying to point out the extreme change to what now has become popular and trendy.it looks so drastic that it has desensitizesd all society,"nothing shocking"so said perry ferrel in like 1988 or whenever,but ,please try not misunderstand me,sometimes i find myself criticizing music and acting all pissed and jaded ,and in the same breath i will say "hey at least they are out there on stage doing it"i enjoy watching bands going from obscure to huge,why not?it shows that the market is opening up more options and sells more diversity.more "underground","punk","alternative","industrial","metal" bands are now getting exposure because of the huge drastic change.in a big way i doi believe that the record industry and t.v. still tells people /public what their tastes are,and what is good,and what they should listen to.but,some of this has been good exposure for bands and a style of music that would of dreopped of the side of the earth had the market stayed the same.but with the good we still have a lot of sh*t!!moree of this,brings more of that.don't get me wrong i still despise what has become of a huge percentage of music and the bloodsucking industry leaches,but i will never turn down any good/bad press and or lots of money,though i am not the image most a&r guys could see doing a choreographed dance or singing some ooh ohh oooh baby sex sex sex lyrics.i have specifically worked on something completely different and we all criticize
what we can.it's easier,but try not to mistake me for saying this or that is my little secret ,and the minute it becomes the flavor of the month i curse them for being sellouts!!!!!i am open minded ,versatile,very jaded,and sooo f*cking opinionated!!but i know that mine is so irrelevant,trite,insipid,to all out there.i respect all views posted here,i am a huge contradiction,though,a hard worker,a perfectionist,i just merely poke fun at the irony of people claiming this or that and taking themselves too seriously.it can look so forced,and costumed at times.i just wanna play music and feel good ,and do it right.i f it ever sells,bravo,where do i sign?if not,oh well,i still play,ansd feel good.
 
Sorry, mojo - I wasn't trying to imply that you were calling anyone a sellout. I just meant that as a general blanket statement based on others remarks in this thread. I totally agree with you - bravo to those who are out there doing it for real. Sounds like your songwriting tastes lean close to mine, but like you I can surely find the good in all styles. I think everyone on here has made some good points. Carry on, good people!
 
Creek said that he isn't the target market for this stuff, and that is a great point. The crap we hear on the radio is aimed at the group of easily influenced younger people that don't really have strong opinions about music or much of anything else for that matter yet. I'm not saying all teenagers fall into this category, but many do. They know the artist is good looking, and the songs catch their attention with the slick production and the syrupy hooks and lyrics. If I gave credit to anyone for the success of current crap music it would be the producers, the engineers that operate the DAWs to make everything sound perfect, and the marketing people that do the promotion. Certainly not the artists or the song writers. The songs are all the same, with the same sounding music, and with lyrics all about the same stupid stuff that only matters to the teenagers that it's directed at. Forget trying to stop promotion of cigarettes to teens, lets stop the onslought of crappy music before we end up with a generation of people that 20 years from now discuss how N'Sync is better than the Beattles. Second hand smoke can be dangerous, but what about second hand listening when somebody is playing Britney or Christina near you? Big Record Labels must be stopped from polluting the air and the minds of our children... when will the carnage end!?!?!
 
Maybe we're all just too old!! Once we got kids, mortgages, and car payments, the record companies know it's harder to get our money. It's much easier to pry $15 worth of babysitting money from a teen. All it takes is one song, and a nice smile/ass/rack.

And Creek, I didn't imply a record deal gives you better business sense. But having reps around all the time does give you alot of insight into what strings are pulled, and why. Yes tastes are personal, but they can't include anything you've never heard. The power of payola doesn't bother me because of the crap that gets played. It bothers me because it has the power to PREVENT things from ever being played, regardless of merit.

jeff
 
true story:

a boyband was being promoted by a group of people.

Thanks to the marketing machine, they already had fans BEFORE anybody ever heard their music.

the FIRST EVER concert they did was sold out with a bunch of screaming girls in the stands.

at the concert, the boys forgot their dance moves, ANd sang off key.

THe screaming girls went out and bought the cd and wanted autographs- of boys they had only heard once.
end of story

unfortunately for us, these screaming fanatical tennagers are the fools who buy the most CDs.

take five
 
Take Five?

Was that the name of the group? If not, then that sounds like a great name for the boy band we should form and cover the most popular songs recorded by all the wuss bands. It would be like taking the best parts of each boy band and fusing them into one mega boy band like so many people did forming those "super" groups of the 60s and 70s... That's gotta be guaranteed success. :D
 
hi jon x,

I believe that the group is called take 5 or something 5 and they are being promoted by the same machine that promoted the backstreet boys.
 
I miss Milli Vanilli. They at least made me laugh. Nothing funnier than an interview with 2 guys who can't speak English, but who were supposed to have sung all those hits. The craps always been around, but I can't remember it always being this bad. Where are Young MC and Musical Youth when you need them.
Jeff
 
wow!!!1

man,,i think a another point of focus should be on the writing, yeah yeah yeah,there is crap to one person and da bomb to another,,,,,what really matters these days is if the composer (poser er not) can repeatedly put out tune after tune,, the main thing the majors look for is "does this person have the ability to write a hook whether handed a can of pepsi or not?". a lot of bands r not around today because of this hhhhhuge fact!,,think areosmith man!!, think of collective soul,,do u think they can write another sellable tune if asked? (even if u like them er not),,some bands r just not in today, but hey,,,van halen could write a tune on da spot, the writers behind most of these new hip hop groups are good hook writers, that's where da money is in the eye of a major label,,,,,hey if u got a good tune or if u r a great songwriter it doesn't matters if yer in a coffee bar er on stage somewhere, yer soul will live if being true and modest....and if yer lucky, ya might write that next 2112 album,er fields of gold tune,er dare i say.........achy breaky hook.....peace!!!!!!!!1
 
No, No, No...

The REAL reasons crappy songs and artists make it:
1. Very good blow-jobs (possible group sex)
2. The cocaine was good that day.
3. The acid was bad that day.
4. An old friend was due a favor.
5. I had to make a decision, and be home by 4 o'clock.

More to come... Peace- kmar
 
Re: No, No, No...

kmar said:
The REAL reasons crappy songs and artists make it:
1. Very good blow-jobs (possible group sex)
2. The cocaine was good that day.
3. The acid was bad that day.
4. An old friend was due a favor.
5. I had to make a decision, and be home by 4 o'clock.

6. The A/R guy is quiting Capitol next week, so he signs the worst act he can find, before he leaves for Arista.
Click to expand...
 
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