Stand Up Wendy Progress

Psycho Clown

New member
Some of you picked this up in my other thread (which wasn't originally about this song).

But I've been playing with it on and off for a few weeks now. Apart from cutting just under a minute out of it, I think I'm getting a better balance now, but of course as soon as I uploaded it and checked it was Ok on soundcloud, I noticed that in places the drums seem to get mighty loud :facepalm:

Am really going to have to upgrade what I'm monitoring on at the moment because the result sounds to thin on the iPod dock and too muddy in the big headphones, but fine on the iPod earphones... I can never get it to sound OK on all.

Oh well, here you go.
Stand Up Wendy Shorter by The Psycho Clown on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

It's a song wot I wrote. I play the guitars and do the singing. The drums were supplied by my Yamaha AW16g.
Some of you have already heard the earlier version and I've tried to take on board what was said then. Thanks for your help.

Cheers.
 
Naw, we all just been sleeping. :)

Vocals sound like they are in a different venue. If the guitars are meant to be distant as they are here, I would wash the vocs a bit as well.

Sounds to me like the guitars are to far away. But, if that is what you are going for, then you got it. :)

Playing is good. :)
 
Naw, we all just been sleeping. :)
Sleep is for wusses... or was that "lunch"? I can never remember :D

Vocals sound like they are in a different venue. If the guitars are meant to be distant as they are here, I would wash the vocs a bit as well.
Yes, I did the guitars like that because the drum track already had a bit of a distant feel to it.
Then as I've been mixing it, I realised my over enthusiasm for reverb (see my other thread in the vocal/singing sub forum) may be clouding the mix a bit so I edged it off the vocal. I was actually trying to get a Dave Edmunds feel to the vocal and he always seems to get a close up and personal thing going, but with a delay added that's so short it almost sounds like it's been double tracked. But now you've pointed that out, yes I can hear either the vocals want to sound further away or the guitars want to sound closer or a bit of both.

Playing is good. :)
Thanks, I originally wrote and recorded it in one evening, so it's nothing complicated playingwise. :o


Does anyone else get to the point where they are simply sick of hearing what they're working on?
I do... Everything I've ever recorded gets to a point where "it'll have to do" because I simply don't want to have to hear it again EVER!" :)
 
Yep. All the time. Though listening again later (weeks) tends to give a new perspective. That is what is productive of this particular forum, none of us are sick of your tune yet. :)

I'm not a big fan of reverb anymore. Think the acid I did in the 80's wore off...
 
I agree with the different venue comment. Guitars are in an auditorium and the vocals are in a bedroom. But the vocals still have a weird delay on them. To me I'd dry up everything significantly. I'd bring up the vocals just a little bit. It's tough to hear everything. And the lyrics weren't too bad.

You could probably bring up the bass a bit. Maybe the kick too. Snare is too wet. All just my opinion.

Cool song.

The intro is too long IMO. It's a rock song - you gotta get to the point in a hurry.
 
Hey - I remember this one. I do think you did well making the drums sounds less crispy and fake like they did the first time around.

I guess I agree with the others that now the vocals are in a completely different space from the rest. I like the delay treatment on the vocals, but it stands out too much maybe being so different from the reverberated instruments.

I still like the guitars as they are...live sounding.
 
Yep. All the time. Though listening again later (weeks) tends to give a new perspective. That is what is productive of this particular forum, none of us are sick of your tune yet. :)
"yet" being the operative word... However, spurred on by the comments I'm looking at it (or listening to it to be more accurate) again.
It inspired me to actually get my old Legacy monitors out to see if I can get a better and more accurate mix.

I agree with the different venue comment. Guitars are in an auditorium and the vocals are in a bedroom.
Pfftt... I thought it would be obvious the vocals were recorded in the kitchen. :D
That's not a joke really... I live next to a busy main road and the kitchen is the room that's furthest away from the noisy traffic that picks up on the mic if I record at the front of the house. :facepalm:

But the vocals still have a weird delay on them.
Yes, sorry, that's my rockabilly roots. I like a bit of slap back echo type delay.

To me I'd dry up everything significantly. I'd bring up the vocals just a little bit. It's tough to hear everything. And the lyrics weren't too bad.
Well I've been tweaking it again tonight and yes, I've dried the guitars up and taken the delay down, but added a touch more reverb to the vocal, so hopefully when this mix is done it'll sound more in keeping.

You could probably bring up the bass a bit.
Would that I could... but sadly there is no bass on it. It's just my guitar playing some bass type runs and then all the top end removed. :facepalm:

Maybe the kick too. Snare is too wet. All just my opinion.
Again would that I could. The drums were a built in rhythm on my AW16G. They aren't separate and when I tweak the bottom end on the drum track, it makes the snare muddier. But tonight I ventured in to the complex (to me) world of the multiband compressor and have managed to clean it up a little bit. Will have to wait till I can get loud again on the monitors (it's late and the neighbours don't like to hear my tunes over and over at 3am :D
Still can't do anything about the reverb on the drums.

Cool song.
Thanks. :)

The intro is too long IMO. It's a rock song - you gotta get to the point in a hurry.
Yes, you're probably right. I already cut just under a minute out of it.
My excuse for the long intro is that I see a live show in my head most of the time when I'm writing songs. This intro would be visually spectacular, with the band coming out of pods and a model of Stonehenge descending from the lighting gantry. :D

Hey - I remember this one. I do think you did well making the drums sounds less crispy and fake like they did the first time around.
Yes, fed them plenty of cake to fatten them up. :)

I guess I agree with the others that now the vocals are in a completely different space from the rest. I like the delay treatment on the vocals, but it stands out too much maybe being so different from the reverberated instruments.
Hopefully I've managed to even that out now.
The problem being that when I take them back into the mix with reverb (to fit better with the guitars), the words get less distinct. I've played with early reflection and the other different parameters. In the end I think I just increased the wet/dry balance and brightened up the reflection. But then I've also brought the guitars forward by taking some of the reverb off. I've also made the delay a bit more subtle.
I'll have another listen to it in the morning with fresh ears and maybe get a chance to upload it again. :)

I still like the guitars as they are...live sounding.
I've tried to keep that. I really want the rhythm guitar to sound almost like Chuck Berry's rhythm playing, chugging along very middly and dry, but when I add it to the mix like that it doesn't fit. :(
The lead guitar is duplicate tracked and most of the reverb comes from the ghost track which is further complicated by being set out of line in the stereo spectrum to its original which is much drier.


Anyway - Thanks for the further comments everyone, it's all appreciated and hopefully, the next one will be a further improvement, but most importantly, I'm learning stuff. :)
 
OK, taking all comments on board... Last night I got off my lazy ass and got the AW16G back out to have another look at the drum track in it's original state.

I realised two things about it;
1: I hadn't removed all the processing before transferring it to the computer
2: I'd forgotten that the "crash cymbal" was on a separate loop pad.

With this in mind, I disabled the crash cymbal track and re-set the drum track to be completely dry and added it back into the song on my computer.

This meant kind of building the song back up from the bottom, which was probably a good thing as I've also sorted out a few other bits and pieces with production stuff I wasn't happy with at the same time.

The result is clearer drums with a slightly better 'kick' and slightly closer guitars.
The (pretend) bass has more space to fit into and I've been able to find what I think is a good frequency for it that allows it to really add some fattness to the mix (still a bit concerned that it may be muddying a little, but unless I go out and buy a left handed bass, I'm stuck with it).
The "crash cymbal" has now been added using a different sample loop and is now more of an accent than a distraction. More importantly, it is now on a separate track so it can be changed without affecting the main drum track.

This mix is also starting to sound reasonable on all the different sound systems I have at home, from the iPod with earphones, the iPod in the dock, the crappy laptop speakers and the hi-fi.

Can't express my appreciation enough for the comments so far... It's OK playing a recording for friends to get some feedback, but for all the good intentions they may have, "sounds good" to be polite and not offend isn't really what I'm looking for and that's what makes this place educational and a great place to try and meet the criticisms full in the face by making the changes that I wouldn't usually be bothered to do. :)

Anyway, don't I go on sometimes? :facepalm:

Have another listen, am I moving in the right direction?

Stand Up Wendy (New Drums) by The Psycho Clown on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
 
I like it better. I'd dry up the vocal just a little more. I'd dry up the guitar on the right quite a bit more.

But yeah it's sound better.

That's not a bass? wow, sounds like it. Oh well.
 
Yeah, I think the newest mix is sounding better. While I like the guitars as is, I agree with Trip that the vocal processing could still be tamed a little. Maybe just lower the amount or the level of the delay just a bit?

Still not wild about the drums, but better than the first mix to be sure. I know there's only so much you can do there and they don't sound awful or anything. I just think the verb on them sounds kinda wrong to me...not sure. Have you tried EQing just the verb? That's something I've only started doing lately and often I find that taming the lows and highs on the just the verb gives it a more natural tone with less sizzle. Depends on a lot of factors though I guess.

Still a fun tune though after many listens. Love the lyrcis.
 
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