sperating instruments in a mix

  • Thread starter Thread starter shackrock
  • Start date Start date
Don't know, can't tell ya

Sorry bud, Unfortunately, I am completely un familiar with Sonar, but I am sure that there is someone else here that should be able to help.

Peace
Joe
 
Sickdrummer...

Which timeworks plugins do you have? The Mastering EQ or the new 6 band parametric?

The six band is a great plugin (as is the mastering EQ) and I would reco those over the Sonar plugs...

BUT...

I don't own Sonar (I use Logic) but if the plugs are similar in quality to those in Cakewalk proaudio I think my reco may be correct...

BUT...

The Native plugs are pretty good as well. In the end it's more about how you use them in different applications...

In the end try all the ones you have. Make a bunch of identical copies of what you want to EQ. Start with one and write down the settings. Repeat with the other plugs using the SAME settings.

Compare the files. Are some "warmer" - "harsher" - seem to have more artifacts? Use your ears to pick which tool to use. It takes a lot of time but it is a GREAT way to get to know your stuff...

That being said... when you need a certain sound you can reach in that toolbox and go...ah hah! The Logic platinum verb is "cooler" sounding than the timeworks "warmer" sound. THAT'S what I want on this track.

Am I making any sense??

zip >>
 
sickdrummer said:
ok
i have sonar 1.3
i have timeworks plugins
waves native gold plugins
and the plugins that came with sonar
which do you recomend i use for eq..ing?
and if you are familar with them
which particular plugin do you recomend with int the program?
Click to expand...

I have Sonar 1.3 and the Native Gold Plugins. The 4-band is all I ever use. They seem much less harsh than the Cakewalk plugs and I don't see a whole lot of difference on the cpu meter.

Also, I've been using the L1 ultramaximizer on final mix and it rocks!:cool:
 
i just got the native plugins so im not familar with all of them except the compression and eq(some what) what is the L1 ultramaximizer ? and what other plugins do you recomend in waves. im asking so i know which onese i should be focusing on.
 
hi
was reading another post dont know if it was here or on another site but people were sayin if you use a spectral analayzer you can seperate things better in the mix. probly true but if you do what do u recomend as a analayzer plugin for sonar? i think waves has one too..but im still lookin in the manual and reading up on everthing befrore i experiment. since i got it like 2 days ago im alittle slow on the uptake when it comes to waves ,,,at least for now.
 
shackrock and others - try playing with short ( 0 - 30msec) delays. You can achieve tyhis either with a delay unit or with a second mic. A second mic 6 feet away will add a 6msec delay. Pan one 1/2 L and the other 1/2 R. OR put a phaser on a track and add only a slight touch but use the stereo output and mix it with the original sound.

what I'm saying is that you can separate instruments by using very short delays to create a different space.

Bob Clearmountain always had 2 x 2 track recorders setup as delays. One at eigths and one at 4s or 16ths. He would add just a touch, not enough to hear it in the mix but soloed you'd hear it. It added separation but didn't become a major part of the track.

I record all my guitars in stereo making up the sound from:

amp mike
ambience mike
stereo output of effect unit (POD or the like)
stereo output of effect (phaser/delay)

shackrock - you won't get a whole lot of separation in a mono drum kit.

cheers
john
 
hmmm...i guess i can try what you're saying - but how will delays to each instrument add seperation - it seems like that would actually muddy the sound wouldn't it?

i record my drum kit in stero - 2 overheads, 1 snare, 1 kick drum. However, when it gets to the computer - it goes to 1 track, so i can only eq the entire track...lol - kinda shitty i guess...but i can still work with guitars basses and vocals for seperation and things.


so i copy every instrument's track..and add delay (30ms) to 1 of each track? then pan appropriately?
 
i have the same prob with the drums i have a audiophile 24/96
and a mixer and a real drum kit
1mic snare
1mic kick
1mic rack toms
1 mic floor tom and
1 mic over head
all go into my mixer and are put on one track sucks but it will do for now.and i get it to sound really good but when you add other instruments you start to loose some of it in the mix so i may try to tweak the guitar and bass to see where that gets me and the vocals as well
 
I have had to deal with mixes like what you describe, where it's
just not possible to get it to sound right. Without hearing your mix, I'm going out on a limb by suggesting that maybe the parts just don't work together well. Do the parts "step on" each other.
One way to check is to try to "sing" the mix.. This doesn't always work, depending o the style and arrangement, but basically you should be able to trace the ppromenent melody through the song. A good example..Bohemian Rhapsody. An enourmously
complex record, but you can sing yournway through it. There's always lots going on but the main thread is continuous, even though it gets tossed back and forth between the lead vox, guitars,(solo and ensemble) choir etc. Not to say that this is the only way to do it, just MHO.
writeon...chazba.
 
Well, in rock or metal, drums define acoustic space of entire track.
Basic thing to capture it is miking technique. You can get pro sound with 6 mics :
2 overheads - condenser cardiod to capture full stereo details
1 kick mic - AKG D112, ElectroVoice RE20 or similar
1 snare mic - Shure SM57
2 tom mics in x-y ( crossed pair ) configuration between toms
With this setup you will catch natural stereo of drum kit.
Panning is essentiall - pan overheads hard left and right, kick centre, snare bit right, and x-y pair half left and half right - check in mono to avoid accidental phase cancelations.

Then record bass like i described in Using Fundamental FREQ... Thread. Use fattening technique on bass track - original left, delayed right, stereo compressed.

Record guitar with at least Shure SM57, positioned at centre of speaker cone. Record it twice and pan hard left and right - you get classic Wall Of Sound Guitar.
Try to record two speaker cabs driven by a single amp - two cabs with two mics under some angle in same room - natural stereo.
Or record stereo cabinet with M-S technique.

Separation and definition are question of psychoacoustic space encoded in sound, not only freq ranges.
That is why old Elvis or Beatles recordings still sounds good today - and everything is done without plug-ins :D

Mixing is more philosophy than tecnology. Wow :eek: ! You can cite me.
 
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