spectrum analyzer plug-ins: how are you guys using them?

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Won't an SA help to train one's' ear to frequencies? By that I mean the SA will show what frequency range you're hearing.

Part of the problem, besides the big ones already mentioned, is that it can take just as trained an eye to see some things in an SA as it can take a trained ear to hear them on monitors.

Rarely is there a situation where there will be a peak or a trough that sticks out like Pinocchio's nose from the rest of the curve; the anamolies are usually more subtle-looking than that.

Secondly such anamolies are often transient in nature in that the spectragram is dynamically changing from millisecond to millisecond. If the problem is with a guitar track, for example, unless there is a very heavy sustain, most of the "shape" of the guitar is going to reveal itself on the attack; the rest will get buried in the display of the rest of the mix. Yes you
can solo the track and run a spectral analysis on just that instrument, but that won't help much if the problem is getting the guitar to sit in the mix right.

There are tricks and tactics one can use to get past these issues and get some use out of an SA. I used mine once as recently as 6 weeks ago to help pinpoint a mids build-up problem on one beat of one measure of a song. But that was the rare exception to the rule (that rule being that I usually only use a spectrum analyzer display to impress clients, but never to actually analyze anything ).

The problem is that in the time and practice it can take to learn how to actually use a spectrographefficiently, one usually has had enough practice using EQ to have pretty well learned what the different frequencies sound like. In other words, by the time one learns to properly read and use a spectrograph they no longer need it for anything but the rarest of situations.

G.

 

[kylen]

This isn't a spectrum forum Eddie Ray - there's a lot of outboard trained folks over here that wouldn' touch 'em with a 10 foot pole. You'll find DAW forums discuss these more and the folks there have developed the skill.

Back to the new point of the thread sweeping - what's the Q you experienced sweeper folk use? I think that's where Hi_Flyer is stuck...

 

[Farview]

Try a Q of 6 and a boost of 12 or 15db. Everything will resonate but things will jump out at you when you are doing this.

 

[chessrock]

Apparently it isn't "duh" -- because people keep asking how mixes should look on an SA...........

Yea, but what if someone's spectral analyzer is showing something really funky. Suppose you were a novice recordist. You're listening to your stuff on your monitors, and it sounds perfect, yet it always seems to sound boomy on other systems. You pull out your spectral analyzer and notice this gigantic, unsightly bump at 50hz.

From there, you go on to read up more on bass traps, and how mixing in small rooms can throw the bass off. Perhaps you're mixing on speakers that can't accurately reproduce sub frequencies. Either way, you just learned something from your spectral analyzer that you can benefit from.

Most comercial mixes tend to look fairly well-balanced. If yours is extremely lop-sided or has all of these big peaks or dips in certain frequency ranges, then it could very well be a red flag that something is off, either with your speakers, your room, your ears or your brain. Or perhaps nothing is wrong at all, but it's not a bad idea to look out for things just in case.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Yea, but what if someone's spectral analyzer is showing something really funky. Suppose you were a novice recordist. You're listening to your stuff on your monitors, and it sounds perfect, yet it always seems to sound boomy on other systems. You pull out your spectral analyzer and notice this gigantic, unsightly bump at 50hz.

From there, you go on to read up more on bass traps, and how mixing in small rooms can throw the bass off. Perhaps you're mixing on speakers that can't accurately reproduce sub frequencies. Either way, you just learned something from your spectral analyzer that you can benefit from.

Most comercial mixes tend to look fairly well-balanced. If yours is extremely lop-sided or has all of these big peaks or dips in certain frequency ranges, then it could very well be a red flag that something is off, either with your speakers, your room, your ears or your brain. Or perhaps nothing is wrong at all, but it's not a bad idea to look out for things just in case.

Oh absolutely - they're great tools for digging up anomalies... unfortunately, a novice recordist wouldn't be able to visually tell an anomaly if it slapped him upside-da-head! They've barely got a handle on recording levels and bit depths, so I doubt they need any additional "visual aids"....

Mind you, that may simply be 'old school' thinking.... maybe to make music nowadays, all people need are modelling devices, meters, and maybe, just maybe - a pair of headphones in the off-chance they want to check if they've actually got sound coming out somewhere... otherwise, if the lights are moving, it's all good!!!

 

[kylen]

Spectrum Analyzer rehab

 

[chessrock]

unfortunately, a novice recordist wouldn't be able to visually tell an anomaly if it slapped him upside-da-head! They've barely got a handle on recording levels and bit depths, so I doubt they need any additional "visual aids"....

It's a good point, but I doubt it would do a whole lot of harm. Either way, a novice's mixes are going to stand a high chance of sucking. At least if someone can aclimate themselves with an SE, they might learn a few things while they go through the inevitable "suck" period. I mean at least you can get an idea for what general range a kick drum lies. "Hmm. Everytime I hear a down beat on my sucky mixes, I see this big spike down here at 70 hz pop up. Interesting." That kinda' thing.

 

[kylen]

It's a good point, but I doubt it would do a whole lot of harm. Either way, a novice's mixes are going to stand a high chance of sucking. At least if someone can aclimate themselves with an SE, they might learn a few things while they go through the inevitable "suck" period. I mean at least you can get an idea for what general range a kick drum lies. "Hmm. Everytime I hear a down beat on my sucky mixes, I see this big spike down here at 70 hz pop up. Interesting." That kinda' thing.

That would give somebody a quick clue that they might need to carve some 70Hz from the bass or HP the guitar for the kick to fit in better (so it could be lowered to a reasonable amount) or give the setting to duck the bass a bit if the kick is getting drowned out too much. GlissEQ has a rta spectrum in it that can be transmitted to another instance of the plugin for overlaying 2 spectrums and knowing where to carve and how steep a slope you want to set. BTW it's also a great EQ to quickly isolate the bass and lomids - or himids and highs to balance things if you don't like sweeping.

The idea of grabbing the CD or DVD from mags like Future Music and others and looking at the spectrums of instruments you don't usually record is fun too. Looking at professionally sampled instruments like kicks and snares can be educational also.

It may go without saying but when using a spectrum - use your ears too (haha - I always wanted to say that!). Spectrums are for both beginner and experienced DAW folks - same as speakers. You can't really say someone shouldn't use speakers untill they know the difference between the lomids and the himids now can you ?

 

[Middleman]

I always have one on the main buss. It kind of tells me if there are any excessive transients happening out there the ears are not picking up. Also any obvious dips that may not be apparent. I flip it to phase mode occassionaly to make sure things are not going wierd. I kind of set it and forget it, checking in sporadically. I like the flashing lines and sometimes just use it for spacing out when I get tired.

I also use it extensively on soft synths to get a general idea of where the focus is so I know how to carve it into the mix. Soft instruments come in all over the map so it's a shortcut I use, probably a bad habit.

It gets some primary use on kick and bass to make sure that dynamic is working. Although I am using this less and less these days.

After that, if my ears can't figure out why something sucks, I might pull it out to see what's going on.

Most of the use comes in if I did not track the audio and I am trying to figure out why a track is subpar. If I do the tracking I have more control and generally need one very little.

 

[chessrock]

That would give somebody a quick clue that they might need to carve some 70Hz from the bass or HP the guitar for the kick to fit in better (so it could be lowered to a reasonable amount) or give the setting to duck the bass a bit if the kick is getting drowned out too much.

Where the danger comes in is that people just assume that this is needed, and they'll do it automatically. There's still a very good chance that, even if both instruments are occupying the 70 hz range quite a bit ... there might not actually be any conflict going on. But it does at least give a rough starting point and some things to look out for just in case.

 

[kylen]

Where the danger comes in is that people just assume that this is needed, and they'll do it automatically. There's still a very good chance that, even if both instruments are occupying the 70 hz range quite a bit ... there might not actually be any conflict going on. But it does at least give a rough starting point and some things to look out for just in case.

My thoughts exactly! There may or may not be trouble if the kick is a bit peaky - just depends. By looking and listening to enough really great bass/kick signatures after a while a connection is possible concerning balance. That's what happens in my world anyway - I'd love to have a 25 foot high ceiling in a great sounding room, 24 hour 90dbSPL capability and the hearing of a 18 year old. I don't have any of that so I do what I gotta do - it just takes more tools and effort that's all. It's only Rock'n'Roll but I like it...

 

[Farview]

These things can be useful. Unfortunately, most anal-retentive novices will try to get it to read even across all frequencies or some other silliness like that. Tools don't ruin mixes, people do. Some people (especially musicians) are distracted by shinny objects and pretty lights. It makes them loose sight of what is important. That is the biggest danger here.

 

[nonovice]

Everybody has thier own approach to audio, and the general consensus is mix with your ears. However if you have taken the time to learn to use a spectrum analyzer and have less than a perfect monitoring enviorment it can help, and at the very least teach you something about sound