spdif? optical? what?

N

NationalSandwic

New member
hello!

ok i'm running an ESI Waveterminal 192M card on winXP using Logic 5.1 and Abelton Live 4.

it's a solid card, ASIO2, good sound, up to 192khz sample rate, negligible latency, so i'm happy with the performance. However, my inputs are these: 2 mic in, 4 (mono) line in, 8 out. All ins & outs are TRS, so I have no XLR.
I have a Spirit mixing desk (powered) with XLR & TRS in, so have assumed I can combine it with my card & have more ins, except the only way to get sound out is to run TRS. more cables! in a roundabout way, i can get more sound into the machine. but if i wanted to do a 6mic drum recording, i don't see how i'd be able to get each mic onto a seperate track.

now on the back of my card (it's an internal PCI card) I have SPDIF ins and outs, Optical ins and outs, and Digital ins and outs (i think Digital ins&outs may be the same as SPDIF, just the cables are labeled DIG IN and DIG OUT), but i'm really not sure what they are. what does SPDIF stand for?
i am assuming that they can be hooked up to a desk and send automation data etc? can they transfer audio?

i need clarification on these things please, i've been using the card for a while now, but it a pretty slapdash fashion, and now i want to set it up properly so i'm not always shifting cables around. which brings me to more questions. my card's GUI control panel includes something called DirectWire, which looks real similar to ReWire, but again i'm lost at how to use it or why i would use it, and am sure it could be useful in setting stuff up. What are the following abbreviations for? MME? WDM? GSIF? i'm guessing the ASIO section is normal audio as my soundcard is my default audio device on this machine. each of the 4 sections has 10 in and 10 out points.

there you have it; sorry if it's a bit confused, and if there are lots of questions, but i am a bit confused and need answers :D cheers
 
Your optical I/O and digital I/O are probably both spdif. It just gives you the option of optical or rca. The only way to use that is if you have something with spdif outputs to hook to it.

There are many ways to hook a mixer to a soundcard. Aux and monitor outputs can be hooked to the souncard along with the buss and main outputs. You then just have to route different things to different outputs. If that still isn't enough, you can plug a cable half way into the channel inserts to get a direct out for that channel (assuming the board doesn't have direct outs)

MME WDM GSIF are useless if you need low latency. These are there for compatability with windows sounds and other useless garbage.
 
right.......so the directwire's just a gimmick. that's why i can't find a use for them!

i'm still not clear what the digital/optical I/O are used for? audio? studio control?
 
The direct wire is hardware zero latency monitoring. It isn't a gimmick if you use it.

Spdif is a digital audio format.
 
another user's new thread reminded me of this thread.
i understand now that spdif/lightpipe connections are digitial transfers which basically avoid having to run through a d/a conversion while moving between desk and computer.
so i'm guessing the benifits are faster transfers and less quality reduction?
or perhaps the d/a converters on another unit might be better than the soundcard's, so it's a way to use the better converter.

my questions are:

- when it comes to mixing desks, what is the connection which allows automation data (track levels, fx sends, etc) to be transferred between DAW software & automated desks?
- is there any connection out there which can transfer multiple audio channels seperately and simultaneously, eg from a mixing desk? ie, if there aren't enough channels on the PCs audio interface, is there a way to bybass the audio interface digitally and get a whole lotta tracks going simultaneously in the software?
 
You can't ever get more inputs than your sound card allows. If your sound card has ADAT optical (8 channel optical) capabilities, you can get an outboard 8 channel A/D converter that will allow you to use that connection on your sound card. Just because you have a toslink jack (optical) does not mean it is ADAT (8 channel) compatible. You will have to consult your manual to see if it is or isn't. As far as the 8 channel converters go, they cheapest ones can be had for maybe as low as $100, while the most expensive can run as much as $10,000 and more.

For communicating send levels, fader levels etc... this is typically done through either midi, or some sort of Firewire/USB implementation. However, compatibility between different hardware controllers and the software you may be using can certainly be an issue here.
 
NationalSandwic said:
my questions are:

- when it comes to mixing desks, what is the connection which allows automation data (track levels, fx sends, etc) to be transferred between DAW software & automated desks?
Click to expand...
It depends on the board. The really high end ones use a built in computer to handle the automation. It is sync'd to the music (computer, tape deck, etc...) through SMPTE time code.
NationalSandwic said:
- is there any connection out there which can transfer multiple audio channels seperately and simultaneously, eg from a mixing desk? ie, if there aren't enough channels on the PCs audio interface, is there a way to bybass the audio interface digitally and get a whole lotta tracks going simultaneously in the software?
Click to expand...
Anything that will transfer audio would be an interface, so your question doesn't make sense. There are many ways to transfer tracks, but they would all be audio interfaces. ADAT, TDIF, MADI, are digital interface protocalls, if the board is digital, you could hook them right up (with the right interface card) If the board is analog, you would have to hook the digital interface to a set of converters.
 
Keep in mind that smpte does not transmit any automation data (actual parameters). It is merely a timecode source that can be used to keep two or more individual sources running in sync so that something like the automation on a console would always happen at the proper place in your recorders (digital or analog) audio or data stream. But, in and of itself, smpte is purely a timing device.
 
farview: by "audio interface" i was refering to my computer's analog audio interface.

xstatic: thanks for the input...i'll check if it's ADAT compatible...i don't have a desk that's ADAT compatible anyway =] my computer has THREE optic i/o's... 2 came with the sound card and one with the motherboard... this motherboard's supposed to be able to put out surround sound, so maybe the onboard lightpipe is ADAT? i'll check it out. sure i understand the smpte point, thanks. i wonder what people prefer...drawing automation control onto the tracks, or recording hands-on movements on the desks?
 
You need to ditch the stock soundcard. It won't do anything useful in a pro audio context. If you don't have a digital desk, you will need to get an audio interface with as many ins and outs as you need. There is no way around it, and there is nothing on a standard computer that will help.

Most of the time when you are writing automation on an automated board, you still end up going back and 'redrawing' the automation to tighten it up. You just end up doing what ever it takes with what you have to work with.
 
no, don't misunderstand me...i'm not using my onboard sound at all! (pffff)
i'm running an ESI Pro Waveterminal 192M, it's working really well.
 
Farview said:
You need to ditch the stock soundcard. It won't do anything useful in a pro audio context.
Click to expand...

Sure, it does. It provides a place to dump the stupid system beep at a fixed volume so it doesn't blow out your speakers/headphones/ears when you have the main output cranked to hear subtle detail in a soft soloed passage....

:D
 
I don't think you can get more inputs.

I don't have this card, but I read up on it and it looks like the s/pdif input has to be selected INSTEAD of analog 3/4 inputs. This isn't surprising, the chip they use only has 2 stereo (4 mono) inputs in total.

To quote the chipmakers datasheet...

"The Envy24 HT is a versatile PCI 24bit multi-channel audio controller that brings your computer at par with the fidelity of state-of-the-art home audio electronics, such as 24bit/192kHz DVD-Audio. It allows up to 10
outbound streams and 4 simultaneous inbound channels."
 
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