Sound module for drums... Roland XV series??

C

Cazzbar

Throbbing Member
I'm currently feeding my MIDI drums through a borrowed Roland TD7 sound module (from an electric drum kit) .

The drums sound nice to me (better than my old Yamaha MU80 anyway) but I'm guessing the unit is at least 4-5 years old by now.

I'm looking at the new Roland XV2020 or XV5050 sound modules... would anyone know if these would be an improvement again on the drum sounds? (are the sample sounds the same on these new modules?? how would i find this out :confused: do samples sounds on modules have version numbers or anything... ?)

Or could anyone recommend another sound module with a bias towards its drum sounds? As I would like a new module with piano sounds as well... :)

Cheers,
Mikey.
 
I have an XV5080 but it is along the same lines that you are looking at. A couple of thoughts.

1) go to your music store (Roland has patch lists on their web site but not sample lists) and get a list of samples in the module in question. If the names are the same (ie fat kick on one and fat kick on another) the sample is probably the same. Roland does not tend to rename samples (or patches for that matter-- if you like a patch called "ghostly piano" on one, it is probably the same patch on another)

2) Each module will take two "boards" Roland has several expansion boards which will help expand you palatte:

http://www.rolandus.com/products/subcategory.asp?catid=13&subcatid=55

A sampler gives you a lot more flexibility, but the Roland stuff has a lot of (IMHO) good sounds and drumkits built it.

Take Care
 
Thanks rjt!

Good advice... will check the sample names.

I was forgetting you could add expansion cards as well. As a money saving approach, I guess this means I could buy the cheapest XV series module. Then if for any reason I'm not satisfied with the built-in drums (or just get greedy) I could buy the SRX drums expansion card.

I'm not worried about great polyphony or effects or anything, it will mainly be used for recording one dry track at a time.

Thanks again!
Mikey.
 
hmmm.... typical ! just looking at the specs, the 2020 is perfect for me... except the dearer 5050 has digital out! ...and my old soundcard has digital in (which i've never used)

what a tease..... :rolleyes:
 
I have an XV5050 and a TD10 and I've used a TD7 a fair amount and I've played around with a 2020.

The XV5050 does have some drum sounds that are better than the TD7 - but I would not buy the 5050 just for that. The XV5050 is a much better module than the 2020.

If you have use for some of the other sounds (and there are a lot of great sounds) in addition to the drums, then the 5050 may be a good buy (I am very satisfied with it). However, if you just care about the drums then the TD7 is not that much of a step back.

As rjt said, a sampler would give you access to a large libray of drum sound - but sampling libraries can be hit or miss.

If you do go with an XV5050, keep in mind the expansion boards are something like $250 bucks or so.
 
Thanks mikeh, your experience is exactly what I was looking for.

As I say, the TD7 isn't mine (I have to keep asking our drummer for it everytime I want to record!) which I why I keep looking at the XV series... but if it isn't such a step forward then maybe it's cheaper to keep on asking :rolleyes:

I play piano and I'm really happy with my Roland A90... but would of used the XV as an upgrade to the piano sounds, but it's looking like an expensive luxury now... but I did raise an eyebrow at the 5050's digital out, but I guess what's the point in diamond clear drums and keyboards when you're dealing with inherently hissy vocals and electric guitars. hmmm.. I'm rambling now! But I think I've convinced myself to spend the money elsewhere.

I've never looked at a sampler... but I guess it's a far cheaper way to get better cymbal sounds for example. Need to investigate.......

Thanks for your help.
 
Put a SRX-01 card in a XV5050/3080/2020 and you'll be very pleased with the variety of drum noises. The native drum sounds are also usable.

SRX-01's frequently sell on Ebay for around $100-$120.
 
i have a fantom fa76 and a td6 drum module (hooked up to a pintech studio elite kit). honestly, i like the sound of td6 better than fantom fa76 (which is based on XV5080 and i believe has all the sounds of XV5050). isn't td7 a later/upgraded model of td6?

if td7 supports SRX boards, why waste money buying an XV module? just buy the SRX-01!


-shami
 
Just had a look... the TD7 doesn't appear to have any expansion slots...

I do like the drums on the TD7... but it's not mine. Would like a sound module with the latest drums and piano sounds... but then I see the price :eek:
 
The TD7 does not support the SRX expansion boards. The TD7 wasn't really designed as an expandable module.

Cazzbar - the "newest, bestest module will always cost too much (only to lose value when the next newest, bestest comes out).

Since you want your very own module (vs. using the friend's TD7) perhaps you should consider something used (to keep the costs down). A used Alesis D4 or DM5 can be had for $100 - $150 and there are several very usable sounds (the D4 sounds tend to be unprocessed and the DM5 has several processed sounds - meaning reverb already is part of the sample, etc).

Many people like the DM5 better than the D4 - but I've always kept my D4, cause I like many of the flat sounds (I can always add processing if needed). I've always felt Alesis had many sounds which were "better out of the box", although things like the TD7 allow for more tweaking.

As previously discussed, smapling would be the ideal way to go - but sampling has some negatives (cost of samples, not always as fast and convenient as dialing up sounds on a modules, etc).
 
Thanks mikeh, I'm liking this advice! :)

As an aside regarding the costs, I know anything new has a hot price tag, but I remember buying my Yamaha MU80 sound module when it first came out (may have superceded the TG100)... early 90s, and I wouldn't of spent any more than 300 pounds... the price for an XV5050 here is currently 750 pounds... maybe I'm not comparing like with like but that price does raise both eyebrows! (I could buy a high powered laptop for that money now)

I've just checked the net and there's currently a D4 going for 70 pounds... am I right in thinking that was also early 90s? Are the drum sounds still comparable to the TD7 for example? I don't know what sampling rates were used in the D4 but I guess a good 16bit 48khz sample 10 years ago would be just as good as one done today.

I know the drums on my MU80 sound completely dead now vs the TD7, but I assume the D4 is a totally different beast!

Thanks for your time
 
Like any sound module the D4 has a couple hundred sounds some of which I think are very decent and some are worthless. I don't remember when the D4 came out (I've had my since I bought it new many years ago), but I think it was late 80's and although I have not looked at the specs in a long time I think it is 16 bit. If you need to know for sure, I could confirm this when I get home tonight ( i normally hang on this site doing lunch at my "day job".

I think the D4 can hold it's own rather well against a TD7. I own a TD10 and I still use snare, kick & hi-hat sounds from the D4 very often (although I do tend to use toms and cymbals from the from the TD10, simply because I can tweak them more. Natually, electronic cymbals always sound weak, so I tend to use live cymbals whenever the project justifies it. If I have a project the demands a very specific snare or kick, then I use the TD10 - again becuase of the various control parameters.

The D4 has 4 audio outs (if I recall the TD7 only has 2) and if memory serves 12 trigger ins (I only trigger the D4 with MIDI it's been a long time since I triggered the D4 with pads).

The main down side to the D4 is limited tweakability. you can tune up or down a few steps but Alesis tried to get good sounds, with limited control (for a reasonable cost).

I would think the D4 at 70 pounds (assuming it's in good order) will give you several sounds you can work with (at a reasonably low cost) - at very least until you can decide what else you may be looking for. As I said, I still find many D4 sounds that I prefer, even though I have access to much newer gear.
 
That's good info Mike.

I will be keeping an eye on the bidding for the D4...

The technique of recording live cymbals is a real eye opener, so obvious yet I never thought of it *slaps forehead*. We ruled out using live drums for the obvious troubles but will definitely try recording a few live cymbals (have dynamic and condensor mics so will experiment).

I'm guessing you're still talking about sampling here though...? that's something I need to look at I feel, after I've finished this first demo and the pressure is off! The other guys in the band always have it so easy!! (Why did I suggest doing this myself :rolleyes: )

Cheers.
 
Cazzbar,

When you indicate you think I'm talking sampling - I'm guessing you mean with cymbals. I actually use live cymbals recorded analog to digital using condensor mics. Naturally, you need a room that sounds decent - if you have too much room reflection the cymbal sounds get way too harsh and uncontrollable.

Using "real" cymbals with sampled drum sounds is a very common practise since it is very hard to capture good cymbal samples. There are way too many variable harmonics and overtones to capture with a series of short samples.

The Zoom that Leeking mentioned has gotten good reviews (I've never tried one) but I doubt that it has inputs for drum pad triggers (only MIDI in) - so if you want something you can control with pads, that isn't the anwser.

Actually, that is something you never clerified. How do you plan to "trigger" the drum module sounds? With drum pads, via MIDI keyboard or do you need a drum machine (vs. module) so that you have little pads you can "play" with your fingers?
 
I'm only interested in triggering via MIDI In (patterns originally created with an electric kit)... so the MRT-3 will work fine for me...

I've just found a page with seemingly endless glowing reviews for the MRT-3 (thanks Leeking). I've been convinced...

First shop I called were selling at 99 pounds but no stock for 2 weeks, next shop I called proudly announced they had it in stock but at 140 pounds... I've arranged a price match though ! (I may have forgotten to mention the cheaper shop had an empty shelve space ;) )

So picking the machine up after work! Will give a report here later if anybody's interested (mainly vs the TD7 as that's the only serious bit of kit I've used)

I won't forget the tip for recording live cymbals though, sounds cool.

Thanks guys!!
 
OK !

I've had a couple of nights to play with the Zoom MRT3. Originally annoyed because the thing did not come with a power supply... think that's because it can take batteries, which were also not included!

Anyway, the demo song sounded incredible (as they all do I think!). The pads work really well and I was excited about all the noises that was coming out of this little thing.

Was reading that the machine could store about 20,000 beats or something as well so was impressed, but quickly spotted there was no MIDI Out... how mean is that! Don't think I would want to spend anytime programming that box without ever being able to get the MIDI notes back onto my PC...

My concerns over the box started when I played my favourite MIDI rock track using Pre-Set Kit Number 1... :eek: ... you quickly wanted to switch to Pre-Set Number 2. Not good at all, sounded very tinny and un-real (compared with the Roland TD6). I know it's no rule, but the first pre-set on any machine is normally solid...

Switching through the kits you could quickly spot a nice sounding snare, but always matched with a weak kick, and vice-versa. Within 10 minutes I realised I was going to have to make up my own kit... which was disappointing.

But still, I set my PC up to play a user kit and started clicking through the 25+ snare sounds. I was alarmed at the amount of total unusable rubbish in the list, sorry can't be any more descriptive, just didn't sound like any snare drum I've ever heard... don't know what on earth they found to sample. There was only a real choice of 2 or 3 snare sounds... not good, although to be fair these were powerful and impressive.

There were far more usable kick sounds to be fair, and no complaints there.

Not happy with the tom sounds though, they mainly sounded very hard... like someone banging on a table.

Cymbal sounds were mainly dull un-sustained crashes and I'd lost my enthusiasm to click through all the ride cymbals etc by then!

Anyway, I set the user-kit up as best I could.

And yes, it then sounded good, very lively and quite exciting and dynamic in places... and was starting to think my hard work had paid off, but I then quicky switched back to the Roland drums and straight away noticed how 'together' and balanced the Roland pre-set kit sounded. Switching back to the Zoom it was obvious I had created an ugly monster!

My favourite snare on the Roland has a wholesome mid-range thwack as well, very satisfying... where as the Zoom's snares are very high-range and bright sounding, very impressive on the face of it, but the solid attack is missing and ultimately not as classy or satisfying.

I guess for 99 English pounds the Zoom is really amazing, but personally I will bite the bullet now, pull out some more notes and exchange for a Roland XV module, probably the 2020. An up to date module for all the other sounds would be nice as well I guess (trying to justify the expense to myself)

God I wish I worked in that music shop and was able to try everything out... :rolleyes:

Cheers.
 
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