Sound Advice Needed from Forum Members

  • Thread starter Thread starter trustgod
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Oh yeah... a newbie to indoctrinate....

(muuahahahahahaaaa!!!!)

I am a computer geek.. so I'll be able to give you some advice on that... And since I use my setup to record songs for the Youth Group worship band I play in... I can assure you all these parts are demon-free. (and dolphin-free for that matter). :D

I can't give you as much advice as I'd like to for the mics/mixers/and what not... but on computers,.. I can help. And just so you know... you have a pretty nice budget... (for around here). If I had 7 Large to throw around I'd be doin' purdy nice.

First off... P4 or AMD... well... the simple answer to that is...

AMD... duh. :D

O.K... So it's not so simple of an answer... but... the more you save on the cost of the 'puter.. the more you get to spend on the gear, which (major point here!!!) is much more important that which processor you choose. The best P4 right now can take an AMD in some apps... but the cost is more than twice as much (if not more.. compare $470 to $200) and the performance increase isn't enough to justify it. Also note that certain software is sometimes optimized for a particular CPU... so keep that in mind. Having said that.... I'd go with this. (you did ask for specifics)

CPU: Athlon XP 2000+ or 2100+ (dirt cheap right now)

Mobo: Get either a VIA KT266a chipset board or an AMD 761 board. Either way you're good. The VIA's have had some issues in the past... most of which are resolved... but if you want to play it ultra-safe, get an AMD based board. In which case you'd want to go with an Asus or Gigabyte board with the AMD 761 chipset. If you want to try the KT266a (which I actually recommend) then go with a Soyo Dragon plus (or ultra if you feel like going DDR333) or Asus K7V266-E. The Soyo is a super-stable board and outperforms a good deal of the other KT266a boards... which, keep in mind, all outperform the AMD based boards. :p

HDD: Maxtor Diamond Max Plus series (D740X).

O/S: I would definitely go with Windows XP Pro. I'm no big Micro$oft fan... and I know Windows has its short-comings.. (most of which I loathe) but XP is by far the best Windows O/S yet. I am more than pleased with it. (and I've used every one of 'em since 3.1) I have yet to have any kind of instability problems or annoying hassles with installation of drivers or what not. (Of course, my mobo helps with the stability)

Just for an example.. I built this set-up for less than a grand.

AMD Athlon XP1900+
(Volcano 6cu HS/F)
Soyo Dragon Plus Mobo
512MB Kingston PC2100
128MB GeForce4 Ti4200 (soon)
Maxtor D740X 40GB 7200RPM
Pioneer 16X DVD (Slotload..! whoo hoo!!)
AOpen 24x10x40x CD-RW
MS Intellimouse Optical
Altek Lansing Spk.
Windows XP Pro

And that was months ago... most of that stuff is going for less than it was when I bought it. Now... you will want more HD space... so either get a bigger drive (80-120) or get a couple 60's and do a RAID-0 configuration... but that's a little more complicated so you might wanna just go with a bigger drive.

I can also second the recommendation of N-track... it's a very easy to use, yet powerful piece of software... and it's cheap as dirt.

If you start out with a set-up like that,... you'll have 6 Grand left to play with on mics and mixers... which is plenty good to get some top quality stuff... (and for that, I'll let someone else recommend, since I'm still new at mics and mixers myself)

WATYF
 
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I have to jump in here on software and sound cards, because I think a few of the best products have been left out of the discussion. First, I have several software programs for recording/editing and I prefer Samplitude over anything I have used. It is easy to use, very powerful, and stable as a rock. I do all my recording, editing, mastering, all the way to CD burning with this software, I don't need anything else. It is not the most widely used program, but that is more an issue of marketing (or the lack of) than anything else. That is changing since Magix took over the publishing directly about one year ago. They have an excellent users forum which is always great if you need tech. help.
Second, check out the Aardvark cards before you purchase. They have built in mic-pre's, sound great, and in fact, come with a full version of Cakewalk. The Q-10 is about $700 and has 8 mic pre's and 2 additional line inputs. So you can record 10 tracks at once with this card and you do not need a mixer. You always have the option of adding outboard preamps later if you like. Still you will not need a mixer with any of the Aardvark cards. They all feature zero latency monitoring.
Third, I would definitely have in my mic collection a pair (at least) of Marshall 603s and at least one Marshall V-67. You can get all three from Abe's music in Miami for $305 delivered. You simply cannot beat the quality of these professional mics for the price. Ofcourse you will need more than 3 mics but you will not go wrong with that combo. I would also have at least 2-3 SM 57s around and then go from there.
Fourth, check out the Event 20/20 BAS monitors if you can, I have a pair and love them.
Fifth, the more time you take doing research, the better off you will be, period.
Well, there's my two cents worth
 
I just have to ask because nobody else did. You just had twin baby boys and you think now is the best time to start recording? Are you crazy?

grace and peace
 
Hi Trust

I got married last year and I compose/record worship songs (... well, and some hiphop once in a great while) together with my wife. Hey, btw, I was leading worship for years in my home church ... and, yes, we had a team, too - weren't so bad at playing baseball either. Quite versatile these worhippers nowadays. Anyhow, my wife and I will be moving from the UK back to NY in 8 weeks, so I'll probably leave most of my stuff behind and need to buy new.

A few things I can recommend very warmly:

-for a new keyboard with the greatest of natural sounds (piano, strings, brass, ...): Yamaha Motif8 ($2250 at americanmusical.com)
- for a new soundcard: RME Multiface (ca.$750 if ordered from Germany at musicians-gear.com - make sure you display their prices exclusive of tax and then add ca.$15 in shipping and whatever import tax applies ~10% ?)
- for a new computer system, here's THE cheapest place (www.centralcomputers.com). I still can't believe their prices. Highest quality components: e.g. their Intel based system (http://www.centralcomputers.com/PriceList/ProAudio/Systems-IDE.htm): Asus P4T-E motherboard, P4 1.8 GHz Northwood, 2x 80GB Western Digital hard drives, 24x Sony CD/RW drive, 1GB RDRAM, Enermax 350W power supply, Win XP optimized audio .... for about $1600 ---- that's about $800+ cheaper than what I found in most other places. Sorry, I hope it doesn't look like I get commission.

It seems your budget would allow you to get monitor speakers in the range of $700-1200. The Mackie HR824s run for $1360 at most places ... however, musiciansfriend.com has 'em for $1160 (excl. shipping) + 5% discount if you use their free platinum member card. Even easier though: go to 8thstreet.com - they will match the price and offer you $1130 incl. shipping for a pair of Mackies (talk to Randy).

So, that's around $5750 for a first class DAW, synthesizer, sound card, and monitor speakers ... use the remaining $1300 wisely and you should have a great home studio.
What you'd still be lacking is:
1) a channel strip micpre/comp/EQ like Joemeek VC1Qcs, Mindprint envoice, drawmer MX60, Symetrix 528E, dbx 376 (~$350-550)
2) a nice condensor mic (~$100-229 (which mic could that be ;) )
3) computer screen ($300-600)
4) software ($200-400)

$1300 should be enough to very decently cover the latter 4 points. Keep in mind that you're likely to get more/other preamps, compressors, mics in the future ... the DAW, keyboard, sound card and nearfields on the other hand are things you will surely keep for a couple of years. That's why I recommend you don't go cheap on those items.

God bless.
 
... one more thing just in case you were wondering how many channels you should get with your soundcard. Here's how I decided:

2 channel for vocals (i.e. to be able to record at least two people at a time)
2 channels for your keyboard/synth
4 channels for whatever happens comes your little way: a guitar player, a bass player and maybe a little choir or to loop in external effects.

Personally, I'll only need 4 channels (and maybe an ocassional 5th channel for a guitar player) to be recorded simultaneously. However, I'm thinking that whichever church I'll go to, there might be young people you would love to be able to record their band's worship songs ... so, I want to be able to help younger people to get into recording worship which certainly requires at least 8 channels for a small band.
 
In your case I would recomend a stand alone 24track digital recorder. You can get them for around 2-3K and if you plan it out you can bring the files into your computer pretty easily. Some of them have software that will let you edit the files as easily as a computer based DAW.

The advantage of this would be you could easily take it to the church to take advantage of a bigger room and I would guess all the instruments already setup. You could do drums and basic tracks at the church then take it home to do overdubs and mix.

Mackie, Roland, Tascam, Fostex and Alesis all have digital HDR systems.

The disadvantage is in having to backup the tracks to another computer or hard drive. If you get a sound card that is compatable with the recorder you can transfer multiple tracks simultaneously.
 
Greetings,

Thanks to all for the excellent advice and humor!

JohnWaynesTeeth: You wisely noted - "I just have to ask because nobody else did. You just had twin baby boys and you think now is the best time to start recording? Are you crazy?"
My wife read your post and is in total agreement with you. Thanks pal. In my own defense I plan on recording when my family is visiting the in-laws. My sons just turned one year old and although there is still quite a bit of work involved raising them; it is nowhere near the intensity of the first six months. Suddenly I have some free time - not much - just enough to begin preparation for my first DAW. That is why I am here seeking advice and reading all the suggestions typed my way. I realize there is a tremendous learning curve to surmount and this is the reason I am proceeding slowly. Thanks for the post. It really made us laugh.

c7sus: I ordered a half dozen Monster cables and an Ebtech Swiss Army Cable Tester from Sweetwater last week. The package arrived Fedex containing my order and assorted lollipops and candies as an additional bonus. Further, they enclosed the most recent issue of Electronic Musician magazine. Won me over.
Here's the best part - they emailed me to see if everything arrived okay and if I had any questions on how to use my new purchase.

If I may climb up on a soapbox for a moment - I cannot count the number of times I have gone to Sam Ash Music or Guitar Center and had to wait and wait and wait for a salesman to look my way and mumble "just a minute, sir" or "I'll be right with you." Then when they finally free up to help - the phone rings and it's the Twilight Zone calling. Yes, it's retail hell and I'm stuck in an endless loop of waiting. How does it end? The item I need is out of stock. But, not to worry, their flagship store in Ulan Bator, Outer Mongolia lists 128 pieces in inventory. Can I wait three days for the interstore transfer to take place. Sure, why not? I've come this far right? Time passes - they don't call (they never do) and I phone to see if my item has arrived. Waiting, waiting, waiting while placed on hold. "Yeah, it's here." Do I have to continue, or can you guess? I drive to the music store (insert name here) to discover that the wrong item has been shipped.
Sound familiar to anyone?

Sweetwater is the absolute best and if they cost a few dollars more - so be it. Outstanding customer service and intelligent technical support are worth the price of admission.

Rant concluded.

WATYF: You stated: "Now... you will want more HD space... so either get a bigger drive (80-120) or get a couple 60's and do a RAID-0 configuration.." Listen, do you hear that? That was my brain exploding. RAID-0 configuration? What means this?
Thanks for the lengthy reply and I really appreciate the time it took you to put together the shopping list. I am going to research this suggested setup and reply back to you with some focused (or unfocused) questions and comments. Thanks again.

blinddogblues: You advised -"I prefer Samplitude over anything I have used." The two programs that seem to receive a great deal of positive reviews from forum members here and at other sites is Samplitude and N-Track. Heads or tails? I decided to do a comparison list between these two software programs this weekend.

You advised - "check out the Aardvark cards ~ Q10" Funny story. I gassed up the old Honda Civic (126,000 miles) and journeyed to Sam Ash Music to audition the Aardvark Q10. The display unit was louder than a bowl of Rice Krispies on steroids.
We are talking serious snap, crackle, and pop. Unfortnately for me this demo Q10 was the only one in store inventory and I was unable to hear how a non-defective model performed. The salesman stated that Aardvark products seem to be returned frequently due to quality control issues. He demonstrated the MOTU828, DIGIDESIGN 001 and M Audio Delta 1010 pieces. Sam Ash is also very big on Apple instead of PC's. They really pushed for an Apple/MOTU/GLYPH system. I mean PUSHED. I thanked them for their time and left wondering where I could audition a fully functional Aardvark Q10.

You advised - "I would definitely have in my mic collection a pair (at least) of Marshall 603s and at least one Marshall V-67." Are we talking Marshall Guitar Amplifier Marshall? That Marshall? Over the years I've played a variety of half stack and full stack Marshall set ups. LOVE THE PLEXI SOUND!!! I have never seen or heard of Marshall microphones. I've gotta check this out. One Way Huge Thank You for the mic tip.

You advised - "Event 20/20 BAS monitors" Here is a list of active monitors I would like to audition:
1. Event 20/20 BAS
2. HHB Circle 5a
3. M Audio Audiophile SP8
4. KRK V8
5. Mackie HR624THX with the new Mackie subwoofer

I have three test CD's that I rely on to put the monitors through their paces. Tannoy Reveals, Yamaha, Roland, and Alesis faired poorly with my test material. The Mackie HR824THX Active Monitors were impressive and made a fan out of me straight away.

You advised - "the more time you take doing research, the better off you will be" True. However, I do not want to get lost in the sauce. I plan on gathering as much information as is humanly possible over the next few weeks and then reaching a decision.
The danger in researching is the research itself. It could perpetuate itself ad infinitum. I would like to make an informed decision after carefully weighing all the options. I am relying on the input of forum members, web links, magazine reviews, and
in-store demonstrations as the basis for my final decision.

mcr: Go Team! Nothing like NY in the Summertime. I have a Kurzweil PC88MX in my home and planned on using the onboard sounds. Since the PC88MX is a controller workstation I envisioned learning how to make use of soft synth technology and plug-ins for new sounds. This way I do not have to shell out cash for the Yamaha Motif as excellent as it is. I have played the Motif many times and think it is quite possibly the best there ever was. However, I have not had a chance to play the new KORG TRITON STUDIO which is supposedly KORG's response to the Motif.
Guilty pleasure time - I decided to purchase a Collings D2H acoustic guitar and they are not cheap. $3,000 US Dollars. My home studio budget has been revised to a lesser amount in light of this recent development. New budget amount is $5500.00 US. The guitar is a dreadnaught with no onboard electronics or pickups. Is this wise? Probably not. If you have ever played one though you would understand. If I regain my senses (happens occasionally) I may opt for a less costly acoustic-electric guitar alternative. Any comments? Thanks for the links.

Blessings,

Eddie
 
O.K... then I'll help you with your back-up research...

Go to Tom's Hardware.

This guy is thee definitive hardware reviewer. He's not just some schmoe who buys 'puter parts and puts up a two-bit review of what he thinks of em and then throws up a couple benchmarks. When Tom makes noise, Intel listens. You wanna know which motherboard to use? He's got round-ups of 20+ mobos with comprehensive feature lists for each board and then side by side benchmarks to show you which ones out-perform the others. Same with CPU's,.. Hard Drives.. you name it.

For example... these two threads will show you one of the reasons why I picked the Soyo Dragon Plus Board.

This thread shows how the KT266a chipset smokes every other AMD chipset out there...

and this thread shows how, out of all the KT266a boards,... the Soyo Dragon is the best over-all pick.

All laid out in pretty colors and (relatively) easy to understand explanations.

Listen, do you hear that? That was my brain exploding. RAID-0 configuration? What means this?
Click to expand...
Sorry... RAID is a Hard Drive configuration. Basically you use a RAID controller to, sort of, "link" two (or more) drives and make them seem like one. So you could get two 60GB drives and make your computer think it's got one big 120GB drive. Most RAID configurations also lead to faster access times. Fortunately, if you ever want to venture into RAID configurations in the future... the Soyo Dragon mobo comes with an on-board Promise RAID controller. :) But the HD landscape is constantly changing,.. I'd also look into the newest WD1000BB Drive... that's got some good reviews. (one of which you can find on Tom's Hardware.)

Most of the other stuff is self-explanatory. Don't get cheap RAM. Only use Crucial/Micron or Kingston (at least). You'll pay more, but with RAM, the ol' saying of "you get what you pay for" is never more true. The Soyo board comes with a great BIOS configuration option that aggressively times your memory settings (and a few other settings) for you,.. so you don't have to mess with CAS Latencies and what not... I got cheap RAM a while back and when I turned the "accelerated" settings on, the thing wouldn't even boot... needless to say, I remedied that fairly quickly.

Anywhoo.. that's the computer end of it... and like I said,... there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to build yourself a smoking system for less than (or near) about $1000 with the help of Pricewatch and eBay

WATYF
 
the only thing I regret purchasing was my soundcard. Get as many in's as you can afford. I never thought I would need more than 2 ins at a time, but now I actually want more than 4-5 in's.

It's more flexiable to edit individual tracks on your comp than mixing on your mackie while people are singing/playing

AL
 
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