sony tc-277-4 4-track reel to reel

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rscottdrysdale

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i just picked up one of these for FREE. always wanted a reel to reel. i've been a DAT-head for a while now (3 TCD-D3's (one is 17 years old!), 1 PCM-R300, and two DDS drives with audio firmware :).

the thing works - i'm now listening to a 7.5IPS recording i just made from vinyl :) but i have to run the machine in 4-track mode and avoid track #2.

channel 2 is busted:

- playback: with a tape with known signal on track 2, there's no audio output and no meter movement.

- recording: no meter movement, and nothing recorded to the track (it does erase).

by "channel 2", i mean channel 2 in 4-track mode. in 2-tracks-per-side (stereo, flip tape over) mode, that's the right channel.

i tried squirting contact cleaner into the big long play/record switches and the switches on the little board that are operated by a cam on the tape speed switch. worked 'em for a bit, but nothing.

the bummer is it came with a box full of tapes (home made) of 60's and 70's stuff. but to listen to them, i'll have to play them backwards to get both L & R, record to DAT, convert DAT to a .wav file, and reverse the .wav file. whee! apparently the failure occurred while the guy still used it, because i came across a stereo tape of dark side of the moon using only channels 3 & 4 (same as my test recording).

i'm planning on finding a service manual. but in the mean time, anyone have suggestions on where to look? from my experience with 2-head cassette decks, it sounds like the channel 2 amp is dead - most 2-head designs use the same amp for play and record, switching in/out direction and EQ circuitry for play vs record.

i have a tektronix 475 scope with DM44 (the DM44 only shows odd values in the 10s digit - needs an IC made of unobtainium), so i can poke around - i just need to know where.

the only other problem i see (hear?) is mechanical rattling in 7.5IPS mode. probably belts or lack of lube on a pulley shaft.
 
congrats! on your new (2 u) sony tc 277-4 quad deck!

you gots to clean the heads and guides using 91% isopropyl alcohol on q-tips immediately! doing so may clear up track 2, not to mention the other 3.

watch out for older tapes like ampex 456 and others, that shed the oxide on them all over the heads and guides. it can wreak havoc with the motors if not cleaned off immediately.

a 277-4 was my first 'real' r2r deck. i bought it when i was living in tokyo japan back in 1973. pretty good deck, i thought, at the time.

enjoy!

one like this, right?
1.jpg
 
that's the one... and the guy said he bought it in japan (while in the navy) in 1972!

i even have an unscratched, uncracked "smoked" plastic cover. and the original boxes for both the machine and cover.

forgot to mention that there was one problem that i fixed already - a broken solder connection at track 1's head. when i first hooked it up, i got nothing but 60hz buzz from track 1.

the failure was probably induced by the silly mechanical design that stuffs all those the big fat shielded cables into a tiny space. after i took the front cover off to do the repair (had to get access to a little bit more wire, as there was a 1/32" stub left on the broken one), it was like getting toothpaste back in the tube to put the cover back on again. and then another fight to get the tape path guard back on.

what's the "special/normal" tape select switch? as in ferric oxide vs. chrome?

the erase head looks kinda beat (it puts a pressure pad on the erase head), but the r/p head looks ok to my untrained eye.
 
your suggestion about cleaning the head fixing track 2 won't do it.

1) i had already cleaned the heads (they were pretty clean already) and the other things that touch the tape (the guides and the little tension sensing thing were kinda dirty). idler & capstan were ok. idler looks a bit dry, but some of that pinch roller restoring stuff might make it at least look better. seems to work fine as is.

2) it's definitely an electrical problem, as the #2 meter doesn't move during an attempt to record.
 
rscottdrysdale said:
your suggestion about cleaning the head fixing track 2 won't do it.

1) i had already cleaned the heads (they were pretty clean already) and the other things that touch the tape (the guides and the little tension sensing thing were kinda dirty). idler & capstan were ok. idler looks a bit dry, but some of that pinch roller restoring stuff might make it at least look better. seems to work fine as is.

2) it's definitely an electrical problem, as the #2 meter doesn't move during an attempt to record.
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dirt on a head can keep a meter from showing any movement. only takes a very few minutes of 'sheddy' tape record/playback to gum everything up.

"what's the "special/normal" tape select switch? as in ferric oxide vs. chrome?"
iirc, 'special' is wide range tape, 'normal' is low noise tape. or vice-versa, not sure-get 2nd opinion.

not sure about 'ferric oxide', 'chrome' does not apply here at all.
 
if it was a three head machine, i'd agree that "no meter movement during recording" (if tape is rolling in playback monitor mode) could indicate a bad/dirty head. but this is a two head deck, so when record is enabled (whether the tape is moving or not), the meters are showing the input to be recorded, not a signal from the tape monitor/playback head, as there is no third record monitor head on this machine.
 
rscottdrysdale said:
if it was a three head machine, i'd agree that "no meter movement during recording" (if tape is rolling in playback monitor mode) could indicate a bad/dirty head. but this is a two head deck, so when record is enabled (whether the tape is moving or not), the meters are showing the input to be recorded, not a signal from the tape monitor/playback head, as there is no third record monitor head on this machine.
Click to expand...
got it. good point.
 
i have figured out what the problem ISN'T...

i had fun with a tone generator (software, using PC sound card), sillyscope, and soldering iron tonight.

i bought a pretty bad .pdf scan of the service manual on the net, and dug in.

the four channels are identical, and i'm messing with channel 2 (aka front right).

there's a preamp (one transistor), shared between the mic input or the head, depending on record or playback.

there's a main amp (two transistors), shared between record and play. it has a 1K series resistor on it's output. there are a couple of RLC networks in here which are switched depending on record/play, so is where record and playback eq happens.

there's a muting transistor which works by grounding the main amp's output when told to by some other part of the machine.

the main amp output feeds:

- the line output, through a 3.9K series resistor (icky - 4.9K source impedance! must fix!)
- the meter drive amp (one transistor)
- the record head amp/bias mixer (one transistor)

in record mode with a test tone at the line input, i see fugliness at the main amp's output. very low levels, and much distortion.

if i pull the main amp's series output resistor to isolate it from everything it's driving, the main amp's output becomes beautiful again.

the line out (a series resistor) can't be the problem, so that leaves:

- the muting transistor
- the meter amp
- the record amp

i put the main amp output resistor back, and pulled the muting transistor. same uglies. i was hoping that'd be it, as we don't need to stinking mute function - without it, the meter and line output would work all the time, which i think would be cool.

the input to the record amp is a 20K pot, so i don't think it's the record amp.

the input to the meter amp has an electrolytic series cap to a transistor base, so that's probably where things have gone wrong.

i put the muting transistor back, but i either cooked it or mixed up the leads (got a phone call as i was preparing to solder it back in). now in addition to the fuglies, i see noise riding on the main amp output.

oh well - i'm just a software engineer. i'll bring the schematics to the analog gods at work and see what they suggest...
 
your post just came up on the reeltoreel list. betwixt there and here, someone knowledgeble on your deck ought to be along soon.
you sound like you've got a good handle on things.
 
I was wondering with this reel to reel.

Are you able to record multi track style, each input has its own volume controls. Curious if you can tape one track to the next without the erase head doing its business over everything.
 
Some of the old sony machines are pretty cool. I picked up a 2 track tc-777 for next to nothing and even though this is its 50th anniversary the thing seems to work with little issues.

As far as multi tracking goes, mine has "sound on sound" capabilities so I imagine the newer model would.
 
Nice, thats a nice score.

Yea the sound on sound is really what I'm after. Hopefully can find a nice unit sporting that. Not looking for studio grade, just looking for a nice way to get music ideas in better than cassette quality.
(analog only):D

Thanks
 
That's exactly what I use it for, that plus a cheap mackie and some decent mics can make some very full sounding recordings. It's definitely lo fi but that can really work sometimes. I heard John Mellencamps new acoustic album was recorded on a vintage 2 track tape machine while he was on tour. Not to mention you can get the bees knees of recording gear (circa 65) for well under $100.

And there's nothing that can ruin flow better than the jingle of windows firing up and the glow of a computer screen. I much prefer the glow of VU meters and the record button that glows bright red when I'm tracking. Not to mention if you keep the machine maintained there all you do is turn it on and cue it up.

I have found a nice balance with the 2 track Sony and a Tascam 388, for all my analog need big and small. Though I did see a 16 track studer the other day for 6k...
 
Phrige said:
I was wondering with this reel to reel.

Are you able to record multi track style, each input has its own volume controls. Curious if you can tape one track to the next without the erase head doing its business over everything.
Click to expand...

I had one of these for a long while (sold it a couple of years ago) and recorded on it quite a bit back in the 80s.

It isn't a four track exactly, you can record a stereo pair, and then monitor that and record a second stereo pair. E.g. tracks FRONT L-R (1-2) and then you can record tracks REAR L-R (3-4) while monitoring 1-2. (Or REAR then FRONT). So it has "simul-sync" in that aspect, I don't think it was really designed with that in mind, but it works. You just have to record two tracks at a time. So it is a four track in a two track mode (?) for lack of a better description. You basically get one overdub. I used it with a simple 6x2 mixer. It will record at 7 1/2 ips, so the quality isn't too bad.

I bought it from some DJ service at a garage sale, in must have been 1985 or 1986.
 
Thats awsome, its crazy how much the 388 has gone up in value the past few years. Damn you black lips!
but i'm totally with you, computer recording is always awkward. easy in some respects, but getting a good sound takes forever. and even then, me personally not having the mics pre amps and charade to go along with it, i usually send it to tape and back to tighten the low end and give it some charecter.

Reek to reel would be like a one stop shop for me. the one overdub aspect sounds interesting. Primarily cause these sony's go so cheap thats actually considerable. Even one like you have JD, with the sound on sound would be perfect. I'll def keep an eye out.

Having the preemo of 1965 is essentially the dream. Maybe mix some cassette gear in there just for fun. But old stuff is great. I'm also strongly considering buying certain bad or broken mics to have fixed + modified. As a poormans way to find unique sound. Curious if you guys have done anything like that.
 
I have a few vintage mics, a EV ribbon mic, a bunch of shure commandos (green bell shaped mic) and a few other random ones. They are fun but are all very muddy and dull sounding. but as long as you don't dump a bunch of money into them it sounds like fun. I have looked into mic repair and it can get expensive fast.
 
I have a whole new problem to add to this thread, hello folks I just signed up tonight and am quickly unleasing my noob questions to your world. I hope you can help.

My credentials: I know little about analog recording, I am a beginner with electrical schematics, and I am waiting for the service manual to come in the e-mail.

I just picked one of these guys up at a flea market. Lights light up, but otherwise I think I am in for a long long repair process. For starters, the motor does not seem to be getting power at all. I hear only a minuscule buzz from the VU bulbs. When I turn the giant crank for rewind, play, record, etc I get no movement from the spindles and not much noise from inside. I have no tape for the reels, so I am wondering if tape has to actually be IN/ON the machine for it to crank, but I doubt this is true. I have not opened it up further than just the back, but I imagine I need to go another layer to get to the mechanical parts like the belts, etc.

Honestly, I know I should read the User manual at least before posting, but I just wanted to get a jump on this to see what folks think is a good place to start. I have the back open and will sit here with my multimeter ready to test voltages until you tell me where to go or to quit completely.
 
No idea about the Sony, but on a lot of machines there is a microswitch on one of the tension arms and it will only respond if a tape is loaded. You can usually fake this by moving the tension arm by hand, or on a Revox machine you would need to cover up the optical tape sensor to get it to respond.

I'll have to try that with my Akai at some point and see how/if they do it since it's probably the closest thing I have to the Sony.
 
russ.knudson said:
I have a whole new problem to add to this thread, hello folks I just signed up tonight and am quickly unleasing my noob questions to your world. I hope you can help.

My credentials: I know little about analog recording, I am a beginner with electrical schematics, and I am waiting for the service manual to come in the e-mail.

I just picked one of these guys up at a flea market. Lights light up, but otherwise I think I am in for a long long repair process. For starters, the motor does not seem to be getting power at all. I hear only a minuscule buzz from the VU bulbs. When I turn the giant crank for rewind, play, record, etc I get no movement from the spindles and not much noise from inside. I have no tape for the reels, so I am wondering if tape has to actually be IN/ON the machine for it to crank, but I doubt this is true. I have not opened it up further than just the back, but I imagine I need to go another layer to get to the mechanical parts like the belts, etc.

Honestly, I know I should read the User manual at least before posting, but I just wanted to get a jump on this to see what folks think is a good place to start. I have the back open and will sit here with my multimeter ready to test voltages until you tell me where to go or to quit completely.
Click to expand...

If you have the manual, you're up on things. You need to get some tape. This only takes 7" reels so some 041 or some 642 from reeldealpa would be fine. (Assuming you are in N. America -- I'm not sure if shipping would make send otherwise, so I think Canford in teh UK carries Zonal, or you can get RMGI LPR-35 if you're on the continent.)

I had one of these for years, and if I remember the operation, the motors won't turn w/o the small tension arm that looks like a bent paperclip up to engage the switch as Tape Wolf above mentioned.

The buzz you are hearing is probably the power supply. This unit uses belts though, and your manual should explain that. Otherwise, there are many similar sony machines. so finding a HOWTO on belt changing shoudln't be too hard. The internet is an amazing place. Somehow I tracked down an original service manual for an ARP Odyssey back in 1989 without the internet....
 
Oh the pain. I had the entire motor out, cables snipped and checking for power going down the line. THEN I see the above posts and the shame swept over me. After soldering the motor cables back in, I powered the unit up and played with the micro/paperclip tension arm and VOILA the motor is chuggin, along with the spindles belts, etc.

I did replace the rewind belt (O-ring bought at hardware store) but otherwise am waiting for some tape to either listen or record on before I know much else. The machine is pretty dirty inside so I will be going at it and also cleaning the heads and guides with 91% isopropyl alcohol and q-tips as suggested above. I will keep those interested posted with my progress with this gal.

Thank you for the help so far Blue Jinn and jpmorris.
 
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