SONGWRITERS- Has Anyone here actually "made it".. or even got close?

Fmmahoganyrush

Fmmahoganyrush

Pleads the 5th...
PLEASE NOTE: I realize that this coul possibly have been posted in the "Songwriting" forum, but it fit here as well (I think) so....



I've done search, upon search... I was scouring the Taxi-type threads looking for answers... ...What I found was a lot of opinions on how taxi (and like services) suck, but what I haven't found is the advise to do "whatever" besides using taxi...

"Get to know people"... yeah right, I know lots of people, obviously just not the right people..

"They'll find you"... ummmm... not too comforting...

"Never pay to have someone shop your music for you"... OK, who'll do it for free, and what's their address?

I've heard a shitload of really good tunes in the MP3 clinic that people on this site have written and composed, and I have to say it's almost ALL better than what they're playing on M-TV, VH-1 and most radio stations. Has anyone who's posted in the clinic actually gone on and gotten anywhere with the song(if so.. why aren't you sharing secrets)?

So come on.. I don't want to know why these "Pay A&R" type things don't work, I want to know what does (and instead of vague answers like "keep trying" or "if you're good enough they'll find you", I'd appreciate names, addresses, or even simply a personal success story of a tune that actually "went somewhere" other than onto the cutting room floor)

Most every other forum on this BBS is very helpfull... ...For some reason this one delves into the great unknown... and instead of coming away from it with answers, I leave it just as confused (if not more) when I leave.
:confused:

C'mon, hit me with something real!

Tom.
 
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Had different singers cover a couple of my tunes for their own demos--that's it......

My approach to trying to make a living in the music business is
somewhat different than most of the contributors to this forum.
Firstly, it makes a difference what type of music you write.As I
prefer to write folky stuff, I can forget about MTV and mainstream radio.(I ain't pretty enough either). Folk music is generally sold direct to diehard fans through live performances or mail order.
Either way you have to build up a fan base, which means getting out there and performing anywhere you can from church halls to local festivals.
A home recording crafted well is fine for what I do and I have met people who actually have made a hobby of collecting home recordings.
Shopping malls in our area invite singer/songwriters to showcase
on weekends and sell their tapes and CDs. Don't forget tapes as
a lot of music is for the car and many still have tape players.
From a strictly results point of view, most of the acts that I've seen playing either old western style music (Sons of the Pioneers or Gene Autry---some people are still writing new stuff in this style.) or bluegrass are cleaning up in a fairly big way.Old folks can't find this kind of music in the stores anymore and buy up what they can get.Not everybody's thing I know, but you asked what really works.
For a singer/songwriters trying to get their songs heard, a band is a pain in the ass. Original material (especially someone elses
won't keep musicians' interest long if there are no paying gigs.)
My advice is to record back tracks and karoake it for mall showcases. Cheesy maybe but practical for a singer/songwriter.
Get a band together for festival dates--never karoake these!!
If you're showcasing in malls, see if you can tape and CD swap with a few other artists so that your sales table has a variety.
9 guys in Alberta did this a couple of years ago and collectively sold 82,000 units in one year. Not big numbers, but all home recordings.
For most of the singer/songwriters out there the above or something close is how they make a living as they are the fabric of our culture, not talking heads.

You've got to love it to do it.....


Graham.
 
Hey Tom,

Over the last 15 years or so I've been "signed" twice to independent labels. The first time was in the late 80's to Brendon Marshall, which I found to be nothing more than a scam. The second time was just a couple of years ago with Dreamscape Music Group, I was with them about a year, they flew me out to L.A. for a photo shoot and had a CD of mine mastered at a place called Raven Mastering. Then they started dragging their feet in promoting and releasing the CD (This happens alot I'm told) so I told them I wanted out and was released from my contract. Though I've never "Made it" I've been close, but so have alot of people I know.

Now I'm building a better studio and almost ready to try again. Why? Because Quitters never win, and Winners never quit! So don't let anything discourage you from trying, but know that being "signed" doesn't mean what it used to and don't expect to be rich either.

As far as how to go about getting noticed, that can happen alot of ways and you have to work hard at it. I know bands have made it just by playing their A%$es off and living on their tape and t shirt sales from each show. Other's from getting to know publishers, A&R, and the media. The road you choose depends on your situation and what you have to work with.

I generally release a CD, target specific places to get it reviewed, promote it anyway I can whether it be message boards, press releases, interviews, even airplay if I can get it cheap enough. Use the results to build a list of contacts and network like crazy. You'd be surprised how many A&R people a press agent knows, sometimes even a fan of yours might know someone, who knows someone... you get the idea.

That's how it works, you're on the outside in the beginning but you can be on the inside...it just takes alot of work. I warn you though you may not like what you find when you do get inside!

Can TAXI help you? That depends on how good a songwriter you are and how many song you can send in at $5 each. People have gotten inside that way.

Can Indiebiz help you? I doubt it, that site has nothing you can't find for free online, if you look for it. People on this site and on the Fender Forum can give you better advice and you get it for free.

Sorry so long, but I wanted to give you honest answers.

Best of luck to you,
Joe
 
KYJoe said:
Can Indiebiz help you? I doubt it, that site has nothing you can't find for free online, if you look for it. People on this site and on the Fender Forum can give you better advice and you get it for free.
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And how would you know?
 
bdbdbuck said:
.....as it coils and prepares to strike......
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OK... Now don't go turning "this" thread into "that" thread:eek:

I appreciate the input folks! That's excatly the stuff I was looking for. I realize from doing a search that many posts in similar threads here sorta beat around the bush, did a lot of slamming/flaming, but never really offered much in the way of amswers (especially from anyone who had actually experienced a near-success experience). All of the above are worth contemplating. I'm still sorta in the dark though... ...I was really hoping it wasn't really a matter of who you know, and a shitload of luck... ...but alas, maybe I already know more than I wanted to believe I did:( .

Thanx again.

Tom.:)










...I suppose, as a side note, there's an amount of frustration feeded daily by tuning into stuff like M-TV and VH1. It's amost exclusively Rap and Hip-Hop which (at least most of which, in my opinion) belongs in a genre of "really poorly written, aggressive poetry accompanied by thoughtless rhythms and stolen samples that a monkey could put together with $19.95 software"... ...I guess I musta missed the boat:confused:
 
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A lot of this depends on what you consiter "making it"

It could be getting on MTV/VH1/etc. but not really makeing money and disappearing after your first album.

or..

It could be never being on MTV and the like but being able to live off the money you make.

My old band came close, in my opinion, we were one of the top three christian indie rock bands in ohio (and yes there's more than three :) :P ) We were starting to get offers for overseas distribution...and had a waiting order for 1000 to the philipines (they would manufacture the CD's locally). We ended up breaking up on the first day of recording that album :)

I feel the key is touring/playing shows and being accessible to the audience...and of course...having good music. I've been working on getting into another band for the last month and many of which I've talked to think that there are "stratigic shows" and they should only play those.... well every show is a stratigic show. I've played shows that had 10 people but they bought $150 in merchandise and became insainly loyal fans.

Another thing to consiter is that for rock the target audience changes completely almost every 4 years (highschool) this means that if you get yourself on a yearly or 6 month rotation for venues you will continue to sell merchandice (I recommend 6 months to build name recognition)

you also have to continue to produce new material...as when you get new fans they have the tendency to buy a copy of everything...and would you rather have 1 Cd available or 4 then that happens?
 
No problem Tom, if you'd like any more help send me an email. If I had gotten into specifics my message would've been much longer! Alot depends on your situation (band, on your own, whatever) and the style of music you write/perform.

Joe

P.S. Dave,

I never said I KNEW, only that I doubted it based on what I've seen on the website and word of mouth. Also on the fact that you didn't answer all of my questions in your email to me. I didn't ask for specifics, only general info as it applied to my situation. If I offended you in some way, I'm sorry...I was only being honest based on the information I have.

Let's not turn this into a different topic as Tom asked. I frankly don't have the time or the desire to hash it out with you.

Peace
Joe
 
KYJoe said:
I never said I KNEW, only that I doubted it based on what I've seen on the website and word of mouth. Also on the fact that you didn't answer all of my questions in your email to me. I didn't ask for specifics, only general info as it applied to my situation. If I offended you in some way, I'm sorry...I was only being honest based on the information I have.
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It's funny to me how you guys get pissed off when I call you out on the comments you make about me.

I've got that email here; do you want me to post it?
 
Dont know if this is close enough....

Some years ago, my recording partner and I got one of our songs on a Kathode Ray compilation. As a result, we were contacted by MTV and asked to sign a release to use the song as background for some fashion show they were doing. They never used the song, but I felt pretty good about getting that far.

Warning: Vindictive remark follows:

I'm an older guy too, and I love to rub that accomplishment in the face of the rather well-known folk singer neighbor down the street and her booking agent husband who just can't bring themselves to acknowledge that I'm a musician too. Shove your Birkenstocks! Ha! (sorry, had to do that!)
 
Re: Dont know if this is close enough....

Tonekat said:
Some years ago, my recording partner and I got one of our songs on a Kathode Ray compilation. As a result, we were contacted by MTV and asked to sign a release to use the song as background for some fashion show they were doing. They never used the song, but I felt pretty good about getting that far.
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That was a long time ago! Which disc were you on and what is the name of your group?
 
long, long ago, in a galaxy...oh never mind!

David, it was the Interior/Exterior CD, and at that time, the band was called "7 Layers of Plastic".

Now we're called "Fan", and I'm working on a web site to throw up some mp3s.
 
Made it?

No...

Close?

A resounding Yes!


Back in the late 80's early 90's I toured with a band called CruxSater (The "x" is silent) We played heavy metal and recorded 2 decent Demo CDs.

Well to make a very long story short:
We met Bob Ezera (Produced Kiss & Alice Cooper for awhile)
Got some good insite and a referral from him and set out to record and sign with a studio called Four Squares. Set up a recording session at Metal Works Studios and things looked good...

Then out guitar player disappeared ... literally ... one night after a gig (Called me 6mo later to say he was married with a kid on the way)

After that our Bass player went "Jazz" on us (I like jazz... but we were playing something just a WEE bit different :P ) and he left

Our Drummer decided that sleeping with my fiance was a good idea... I disagreed and well the rest is ancient history...

... I tried to reform with several other groups but it just never had that FEEL we had... so I faded off the scene til recently.

Now you'll find me doing a little studio work in the Windsor Detroit area... and the ocasional sit in for local Bluse artists.

I'm thinking of crawling up out of this funk to play again... maybe.

- Tanlith -

"Eternal Noob"

Yes it's true! I'm an Acid Pro junkie!!
 
tanlith,
You go man! Us old guys are gonna make a comeback! cough..... cough.................





















furball.



bd
 
Thanx for the new posts guys! I guess I'm just going through another one of those phases...

I suppose the root of the (my) problem is that I have a few tunes (actually more than a few, but only a few actually apply to this) that I personally think are pretty good and wish that they'd get "picked up" by somebody. I realy don't have it in my heart to go back out and gig these things (I'm getting a little long in the tooth, and I've been there/done that for 20 years). It seems that everytime I get news that "somebody" might have an interest in a song, it just ends up in the shitter, and leaves me wondeing why I even bother. It gets old surfing th net for places to submit tunes only to find closed doors. Hell, I tried to get a song to Jimmy Buffett for his consideration every which way short of attaching it to a brick and throwing it through his window, and another to Lee Greenwood that just ended up hitting roadblocks(I hate the words "sorry, we don't accept unsolicited material... ...but if you do send it to us, consider it a our property and you'll no longer have any rights to it... ..Have a nice day, now piss off). Mind you, I may not be great, but I have (and still can) hold my own as a performer (and I've weathered well for a 40 year old...lol.. so much for hooking up with the BackStreet Boys), and the few tuns that I have put time into, I feel, have a place somewhere other than colecting dust. Damn... ...it just gets frustrating sometimes, that's all. Thanx again (I usually get this way once or twice a year, then it passes..lmao)

Sorry for the rant... ...anyone know of any 12 step programs for frustrated musicians?

Tom.;)
 
Hey Fmm , Im 40 also. I have posted some stuff in the clinic and we all are really hard on each other, but its really good, cause it just makes your stuff better. I have came close to makin it or I suppose getting a major record deal used to be considered makin it, but nowdays a million dollar deal nets the band members about $7000 dollars after all the hands get in the pie. If ya dont sell enough, they come and take it all back and your first born.
I had an offer when I was doing studio guitar work in LA in 90 by Metal Blade as a solo artist, because I meet the right people and they listened to my demo and liked it. But after the deal was proposed, it didnt look very good at all, so I walked. I then started working for a major music and video distrubutor and started hanging around A&R and sales reps for all major labels. I got close to the Sony rep and the capital rep. We were starting to get a deal with Sony, then some band members broke under the pressure that time and I could of joined another band and made it work, but I needed drug treament by then and I was burned out. I walked away and left California and went back to Oregon and got into rehab. I was 29.... Then I got married.
I learned a lot from the industry people and They all live in fear of screwing up and losing their jobs , so you could be a brother or best friend to an A&R and still get nowhere. Your music has to be real powerful and different to make it with a major record deal. An A&R guy will him/herself go around with something they like and let many other people listen to it to see their reaction. For them to take a chance with the corporations money means they could lose their job if they screw up, possibly nowadays, even once. Sure I could write a book , but no one wants to hear the harsh realities. People only buy books that tell ya what ya want to hear.Period:)
I think you could still make some good money doing soundtracks and Im looking into that right now. In the mean time Im going to have fun with my home recording studio and give my shit away. Im not sure now if I would want to make my love into a job anymore. Hope I didnt discourage you too much.
Myx
 
bdbdbuck said:
tanlith,
You go man! Us old guys are gonna make a comeback! cough..... cough.................


... huh?? Sec... lemme turn up my hearing aide... what was that??

*grin*

- Tanlith -


















furball.



bd
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