song to be sent to colleges...help needed!

Zeppelin456

Banana Co
I'm a 17 year old from Boston and I am applying early to the Steinhardt school at NYU and I'm making up a demo CD and this is the newest song I've recorded. I'm planning on leading off the album with it and I wanted to get some feedback. Anything would be helpful....song structure-wise or productionwise.

Equipment used:

MOTU 896 into...
Cool Edit Pro

Mics:
SM57
2 Oktava MK012s
2 Behringer ECM8000s
A few junky dynamics (CAD, Audix)

All recorded in my room and I play and sing everything....Thanks alot!

 
Hi Zep,

I am listening on PC speakers with a sub.

Technically: overall, the recording sounds roomy and natural, easy on the ears, no harshness; the drums are perhaps a touch loud in places, but could be my listening set-up. Vocals sit well in mix.

Arrangement: I like the 'wah'-ish guitar that punctuates things through the piece. But I find that the song lacks some tension, at least until you get to about 3 minutes and the soloing begins.

Part of this is that after the first verse and chorus, nothing is added to the instrumentation to help build the arrangement up to the finish.

At 1:25 or so, when you go into the next verse, some synth pads (and perhaps add'l percussion of some kind) can help 'swell' the soundscape and keep the ears interested until the guitar solo.

Vocals: you need to work on them. I like the doubling of vocs, but you sing too tentatively and I also heard slight pitch issues. I kept waiting for you to wail at least a bit on the choruses. More abandon!

Keep at it, it ain't easy :-) I'd like to hear it again if you re-post.

Best,

CC
 
Thanks alot for the comments!

This is actually the first time I've ever really tried singing on any of my songs (I was doing instrumentals up until this point). I haven't ever really appreciated how hard singing can be until now though. It's insanely hard to pronounce all of the words, at least for me...this song has sorta opened up a whole new world to me as far as my perspective on singing is concerned. But yeah, I'll take that advice into consideration when I go to remix it a bit...thanks again.
 
The starting vocal doesn't sound so hot. The double vocal I don't like. Not tight enough.

Overall the song lacks much excitement in it. The drum performance is too laid back... making it a bit boring.

The sounds are pretty good though. On that I don't have much complaint. They fit the song, anyways.

At roughly the 3:00 mark the ride cymbal is too loud, and a bit strident. The snare should come in with a meatier sound as well. At 3:40 that transition is sloppy IMHO.
 
All I can say is how cool would it be to have my college application be a recording I made! Man, that sux I was born some years too early (course there's no guarantee I would've gotten accepted :rolleyes: )

Nice lilty drifty laid back song. Maybe some high definition missing off the vox. Tasteful writing, I like when you break out the build up at 3:00. Snare maybe coming through a bit high in spots around there. Interesting ambient stuff and creative more than formulaic, I would imagine you probably have a big jump over many of your application competitors, good luck!
 
Dude,

I invite you to bring the tracks up to my studio for a remix. I do like it though. Previous comments about the drums being too laid back ring true for me as well.
 
Just to clarify, this is NOT my application but the NYU Steinhardt school of Ed (which also houses the music programs) says that sending in a CD is optional and that's just what I'm planning on doing. Basically, I still have to do a real app. anyways :-\. I'm applying as a music tech major by the way. Thanks for all these comments. As far as a meatier sounding snare, I'm thinking that the way I recorded it makes it sound a bit thin just because I've really tried a few times to beef it up with no luck...I guess it doesn't bother me too much but now that I listen, the ride is a bit too cutting at the end. The problem that keeps facing me is that when I turn that ride down, I feel like alot of the energy is lost but when I turn it up, it's too loud, so I'm looking for ways to lower it but keep the energy. Sorry to ramble...
 
Zeppelin456 said:
The problem that keeps facing me is that when I turn that ride down, I feel like alot of the energy is lost but when I turn it up, it's too loud, so I'm looking for ways to lower it but keep the energy.

Compression. :)
 
Compression is the bane of my existance...no kidding but whenever I use compression, I end up just cycling through the presets until I find something that makes the sound a little better than before. I have alot of trouble comprehending how all of the compression variables affect the sound....so I'm not totally sure how to treat this ride cymbal.
 
Here's the big secret of compression:

You should *barely* hear it working except as increasing your overall volume within the parameters you need. The average person may not even hear it working much. THAT is how the pro's set 75% of their compression, the other 25% is super squish city reserved for things like submixing drums in stereo and mixing it back in at low levels to beef stuff up.

Jim's rules for compression:

First let's define what a compressor does--which is to affect the amplitude of a signal by selectively reducing it. Compressors tend to have the following controls:

Compression ratio: this determines how 'hard' the compressor is supressing the signal. Usually described as a ratio such as 2:1, 4:1 and so forth. What this means is, after you cross the threshold setting, how many db's you have to go over to effect 1db of volume change. Thus a 4:1 ratio means that once you go over the threshold for every 4db over you will only get 1 db of amplitude change.

Threshold: this sets the decibel level that the compressor starts to work. Signal underneath the threshold will be unaffected--signal above it will be hit by the compression amount determined by the ratio. Needless to say, setting the threshold above the peaks of the signal will NOT do jack shit to the signal. You gotta set it in the path of the signal, so to speak. This is always expressed in negative db, thus a -24 threshold will compress any audio above -24db, and leave everything below it alone. (*Note, soft knee compressors start to work a bit before the threshold!)

Attack time: how long, in milliseconds, it takes for the compressor to kick in. This keeps your transient peaks unaffected and is the trick for getting a "punchy" kick or snare (the front end crack will be uncompressed and thus louder than the following signal).

Release time: once the signal falls below the threshold how long, in milliseconds, it takes for the compressor to 'let go' of the signal. For vocals and other similar instruments you want this to be fairly long like 200-250ms. For drums 75-125ms is great.

Special note on soft-knee compressors: some compressors have a soft knee function. What this does is start compressing the signal lightly as it approaches the threshold, and as you get closer to the threshold it will compress harder and harder until you reach the threshold and the full compression ratio will be utilized. This provides for fairly transparent compression and is great on vocals. Personally it sucks for drums unless you are squishing a stereo submix of drums.

Another note on stereo compressors: you should *always* link stereo sides of compressors when processing stereo signals. Once a side reaches the threshold BOTH sides get the compression. Failure to do this can lead to, for example, drums that leap in volume on one side but not the other... very assy unless that's what you really wanted. (Why god, why???)

Moving right along.....

Here are some guidelines off the top of my head:

2:1 ratio--overheads, distorted guitar, soft vocals, most synths
3:1 ratio--clamping down on overheads, acoustic guitar, most singers
4:1 ratio--bass, snare, kick drums, toms, crap singers
8:1 ratio--bad bassists, screaming vocalists, squishing the life out of stuff
12:1 ratio--out of control peaks or when you want to sound like limiting but still keep some life to it

Compression ratio and threshold are intertwined, so set both accordingly!

If you need dynamic range--RAISE the ratio
If you need more regularity in levels--LOWER the ratio
If you just need to shave off some peaks--RAISE the threshold
If you want to affect a lot of the signal--LOWER the threshold

Here's the tricky parts that require hard decisions:

If you want more smooth sounds--LOWER attack time (under 6ms)
If you want more punch--RAISE attack time (between 7-50ms)
If you need "more" compression--LOWER attack time more
If you need "less" compression--RAISE attack time

If you need 'invisible/natural' compression--RAISE release time
If you need 'audible/percussive' compression--LOWER release time
If you need 'absolute/constant' compression--release time as LOW AS IT GOES BABY! (0 if you can get it)

Now pull out yer ears:

If it pumps and breaths--RAISE release time (unless you want that)
If the compression seems to disappear--LOWER release time

Finally the number one rule for compression:

ALWAYS match relative volume levels (by ear) before and after compression using makeup gain--meaning that they should be peaking about the same. If you record using my "-15 to -12dbfs with peaks no greater than -6dbfs" rule this is easy; if you tend to record sloppy and "hot" you may need compression to keep you out of the red. Don't do this to yourself.

The idea for this is that LOUDER often equates to sounding better to us, fooling us into setting duff and mookish compression settings. When dialing in compression make sure that the before and after levels are identical so you can hear the compression and not the jump in volume.

Here are some guidelines on setting makeup gain:

The lower the threshold the more makeup gain you need.
The higher the threshold the less makeup gain you need.
The higher the ratio the more makeup gain you need.
The lower the ratio the less makeup gain you need.

Further modified by:

The faster the attack the more makeup gain you can get away with.
The slower the attack time the less makeup gain you can use.
The faster the release time the less makeup gain you can use.
The slower the release time the more makeup gain you can use.

The last trick of compression:

Use GOOD COMPRESSORS. (Plugin or hardware--hardware if you can afford it.)

Good compressors include: Manley Elop, Manley Variable Mu, DBX 162, UA 1176 reissue, UA LA2A reissue. For software I really dig this freeware compressor called the Blockfish (free from DigitalFishPhones for DX and VST apps), the Bombfactory Classic Compressor bundle, Waves Renaissance Compressor, and the Sony Oxford Compressor.
 
god both of those last two posts.....thank you so much!!
I really appreciate this, this is the reason this board is great.....this whole post has been really informative and helpful to me. so yeah thanks, looks like I've got some reading and practicing to do eh?
 
no kidding I amaze even myself :cool:


































But saddly I got nothing on Cloneboy, he wrote it in his own words :rolleyes: :cool: :( :mad: :) :confused: :o :eek: :D ;) :p


oh... no he didn't, unless the man they call Jim.
 
JKestle said:
But saddly I got nothing on Cloneboy, he wrote it in his own words :rolleyes: :cool: :( :mad: :) :confused: :o :eek: :D ;) :p

oh... no he didn't, unless the man they call Jim.

Those were my own words from a post I wrote about a month ago on another website about compression. My real name *is* Jim.
 
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