song structure

[steve js]

I was wondering if anyone has suggestions for a good way to "plan out" a song before recording. Something that does not require reading notes Is there an "industry Standard " way of doing this?
thx
Steve

 

[BLISS]

Steve: you could set the song by bars, which are basically equivelent in all songs (4 or 6 bar) verse
(8 bar)chorus --or vice/versa
(everone works differently)
and this basically repeats in succession, depending your tempo of song, slower songs need not be so long, faster ones can have like 6 or 8 bar verses, depending on your style of music

 

[dobro]

Steve - what do you mean by 'plan out a song before recording'? You mean have it on paper for musicians to read, but without staffs and notes?


[This message has been edited by dobro (edited 05-23-2000).]

 

[steve js]

this is probably something i need to work out for myself. I just need a good way to follow a song when laying down the "bed" tracks- so I don't lose my place.
I guess I could do a scratch track of guitar & vocals first and then use that as a guide.
Thinking out loud here- sorry.
Also- what is a typical order of laying down tracks? Guitar, then Drums then bass, etc...?
I suppose there's a million answers to that question.

 

[dobro]

Oh - I didn't understand your question.

Check out this thread from three months ago. Loads of ideas there.
https://homerecording.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000483.html

 

[Top Jimmy]

Hey Steve,

Do you have a drum machine? I like to plan out songs that i had written on paper before recording, useing the drum machine.

just a thought

 

[DaveO]

I've gotten pretty anal about the process I follow, but it helps me keep things straight. I first create a rough track that has the main guitar line, maybe a 2nd guitar, and a lead and backing vocal. I don't care about getting the performance
perfect, but I do try to work out mic placements, settings on the gear, etc. I use this as the outline for planning out what I want to do.

Next I do as much planning as possible. I break the song into parts (can be kind of arbitrary). Then for each part I'll note the instruments in it, the chord progression, how many meaures it is, mark any variations in time signature (the other guitarist I'm working with *loves* adding or subtracting a single beat at the transitions between parts), etc.

Then I figure out the order I'll record the tracks, but I also look for "tracks" that don't overlap so I can put them on a single real track (I'm still working on a cassette 4-track). I started doing this to minimizing bouncing, but found it gives a pretty good blueprint to work from. Then I program the drum track, record it, and follow the rest out the blueprint.

I didn't start out doing this much work, but it got me to pay attention to what I was doing. It's also the reason it takes me a month or two to finish a song.

 

[The Green Hornet]

Yo STEVE:

About two years ago a fine musician and a good friend stopped at my studio to cut a tune to send to his band members, CHIZIL, is the group's name. Fine players. Well, I engineered the cut but he taught me a great deal about setting up a tune. Here is what he did.

First he laid down the drum track. [I usually do the drum track and chords for the tune] But, sometimes, I just do drums on two tracks for more punch.

Then, He put in KEYS; then, the base line; then he added more drum chops on another track; then, he added a horn. For a two minute cut, we were working about three hours.

I think the key here, at least they way I record my stuff, is to get the rhythm tracks, drums, base, chords, down; then do the vocals and whatever else you want to add to the tune. Now the fun begins trying to mix seven or eight tracks. That's the most I do since I have an MD-8. But, many times, I only use six tracks. I DO NOT BOUNCE ANY TRACKS BECAUSE I WANT TO MAINTAIN AUDIO CONTROL/TWEAKING OF ALL TRACKS TO MIX THE FINAL PRODUCT.

I hope this helps you get to where you want to get.

Green Hornet

[This message has been edited by The Green Hornet (edited 05-30-2000).]

 

[Blackwiz]

I have a quick question. When using a multitrack recording, say a 16 track recording studio, how do you record a song with a lead verse and a chorus and so on? For the vocal part, do you sing out the lead and chorus, basically the whole track on the vocal track?? How do you do that? Can someone please explain this to me? Im trying to get into recording, but I just cant figure out how that would work in my mind.

 

[MadAudio]

I have a quick question. When using a multitrack recording, say a 16 track recording studio, how do you record a song with a lead verse and a chorus and so on? For the vocal part, do you sing out the lead and chorus, basically the whole track on the vocal track?? How do you do that? Can someone please explain this to me? Im trying to get into recording, but I just cant figure out how that would work in my mind.

If you're going to hijack a thread, try one that's not 7 years old!

 

[Blackwiz]

Hmm...I just googled this and this thread came up. I registered real quick, but I didnt realize how old it was. So can you or anyone answer my question?

Onel

 

[danny.guitar]

I have a quick question. When using a multitrack recording, say a 16 track recording studio, how do you record a song with a lead verse and a chorus and so on? For the vocal part, do you sing out the lead and chorus, basically the whole track on the vocal track?? How do you do that? Can someone please explain this to me? Im trying to get into recording, but I just cant figure out how that would work in my mind.

Not sure I understand you...

Usually what I do is lay down the rhythm first (usually rhythm guitar). Some people do drums or bass first, either way. But it's good to have a solid rhythm track to sing to. Make sure it's in time (you can use a click track/metronome/drum machine for this but I personally don't).

From there you can record your lead instruments/vocals over the rhythm track.

I find it's best to do full takes on vocals. Sing through the whole song.

From there you can pick out the best take, or even mix different parts of different takes to get the best vocal track possible.

 

[Blackwiz]

Not sure I understand you...

Usually what I do is lay down the rhythm first (usually rhythm guitar). Some people do drums or bass first, either way. But it's good to have a solid rhythm track to sing to. Make sure it's in time (you can use a click track/metronome/drum machine for this but I personally don't).

From there you can record your lead instruments/vocals over the rhythm track.

I find it's best to do full takes on vocals. Sing through the whole song.

From there you can pick out the best take, or even mix different parts of different takes to get the best vocal track possible.

Basically, what Im asking is how do you record a song(on a multitrack recorder) where you have a hook that repeats itself throughout the song?

Do you just have the vocals sing the whole song through with the hook/bridge/chorus too...being that the chorus would be sang differently each time in the song?? And then do you punch in the bridge parts copying and pasting it on each bridge part of the song??

Or is there a different way to actually do this? I just there would be an easier way to do this.

Say someone comes over and sings a verse of a song, but leaves and then you have someone else and you want to take the song and make it a duet. Or say you have to two vocoalists and then later on you want to add hooks in the middle of the song?

(im typing as I talk/think). Do you understand what Im getting at? Can you help me out?