Song structure

While we're on a song structure topic...

From most of the lyrics people post here it seems everyone writes in a verse/chorus formula with the odd bridge thrown in here or there. My question is - does anyone write in the verse IS the chorus type style? Complete phrases that encompass a verse and a chorus that cant be split. For instance:

From me to You (The Beatles) where does the chrous start? Is it 'If theres anything that you want' or is it 'and il send it along with love from me to you...'? You cant seperate it. Its chunks of complete musical phrases. A hard days night is the same. Where is the chorus/verse definition between "its been a Hard Days night.." and "you know i feel alright". You cant sing one without the other. Both songs contain middle 8's or bridges or instrumental breaks. She Loves you on the other hand has a very defined chorus and verse structure.

I think this is a very hard way to write. I personaly try to do this for relief from a verse and then big chorus. Bits of musical phrases thrown together to make a song. Anyone else ever try it?
 
Re: While we're on a song structure topic...

Benreturns said:
My question is - does anyone write in the verse IS the chorus type style? Complete phrases that encompass a verse and a chorus that cant be split.
Click to expand...

I do sometimes. If you check out my song on the homerecording.comp CD (you did buy a copy, didn't you?) you'll see that it's in AABA form. Usually when I write like this, the hook ends up being the last line of each "A" section, although it certainly doesn't have to be that way as you pointed out w/ the Hard Day's Night example. Another good example is Fields of Gold by Sting.

A
www.aaroncheney.com




p.s. Your check is in the mail Dr. Spankenstien....;)
 
Just a thought... or two..

This may sound to obvious. You have to have a voice. By that I mean you need to know what you are trying to say, what the subject is, if you don't have that, maybe what you are really looking for is creativity. Personally the music usually tells me what direction to take, but I write more lyrics than I do music. I save all of them, even the crap, and with enough time I usually end up starting a fire with them. (the crap that is) Musical form, theory, and time signature, are really nothing more than tools to use to fill out your voice. Creativity, or the gift of creativity, is something that when you find it, is a blessing, and one to be cherished no matter how humble it is. It is truly a gift.

Keep the faith, Ozlee
 
Although I do not think that what you saying is wrong per se, I really hate the idea of a formula for doing anything. I think an artist should be able to write in whatever way and in the way s/he finds most comfortable. It's the end product that counts not the process in which it was written. My humble opinion... :)
 
I guess I'm as screwy as all getout.

I’ve had songs take shape from all methods, and I agree, whatever gets you there is good.

Usually, though, I start with getting some great sounding chords, riffs or a hook on an acoustic guitar and piece together the potential outline of a song. When I’m playing through, I always have a lyric or two with a melody that pops out and I can finish it around that. Never fails!

Oh, and two things that have made a difference in my writing in the last year are that I make sure I can play and sing the entire song with an acoustic guitar (to prevent technology from being too much of a song) and I always carry a small notebook in my back pocket, so when a phrase hits me I write it down for later.

This has been an interesting thread.
 
well if you want to make it theres a certain way of writing, everything on the radio sounds the same.I mean if your chorous does not kick in the first twenty seconds or so forget about it, thats why I just stopped trying to be famous and just made music the way I thought it should be and not for some bozo the clown rep. Some of the best music in the 70s were songs that were ten minutes long, now if its over two its in the trash(I know most of you know that Im just venting)what the hell happened to the music industery? were so desperate for new talent(within the guidelines) that were signing the laughing stock of the American Idols.
 
Who your audience is will reallly determine the way you should write, IMO. The regular Joe and Jane aren't interesting in putting forth the effort to understand a song that breaks the formula. I know this by experience. I've released 2 CD, and sold quite of few of the one I wrote more commercial, sappy songs on. My second one I wrote very selfishly on. While I'm much more proud of the songwriting on it, I still have 3 boxes of them in my garage!:rolleyes:
If you aren't chasing a dollar, and you are writing music for other musicians or a more educated and discriminating audience, then you have more freedom.

I'm not sure if we will ever see a time for music like existed in the '60's and '70's again. That was a time when the format of popular music was still relatively new, as was audio recording, and people were experimenting with both like crazy. Nowadays they've both been around a long time and people have figured them out to some extent.

A
www.aaroncheney.com
 
What Aaron is saying is true. But I think this is because of the corporate takover of anything that sells. If people choose to go indie as opposed to sucking corporate cock than we might, just might get more yummy stuff to listen. : )
 
whats this hype on indie lables?? I dont know much about it, I know youll laugh but I think of folk music when I here that word.What are the differences between the two?(major label vs Indie)and how does it effect the artist?
 
On a different note

From most of the lyrics people post here it seems everyone writes in a verse/chorus formula with the odd bridge thrown in here or there. My question is - does anyone write in the verse IS the chorus type style? Complete phrases that encompass a verse and a chorus that cant be split. For instance:

From me to You (The Beatles) where does the chrous start? Is it 'If theres anything that you want' or is it 'and il send it along with love from me to you...'? You cant seperate it. Its chunks of complete musical phrases. A hard days night is the same. Where is the chorus/verse definition between "its been a Hard Days night.." and "you know i feel alright". You cant sing one without the other. Both songs contain middle 8's or bridges or instrumental breaks. She Loves you on the other hand has a very defined chorus and verse.

I think this is a very hard way to write. I personaly try to do this for relief from a verse and then big chorus. Bits of musical phrases thrown together to make a song. Anyone else ever try it?
 
I have written many of my best songs while driving the car just singing a cappela. I talk to myself a lot in the car (no comments) and it sometimes just starts with some sort of ryhming phrase that becomes a hook. Sometimes it is just a catchy bass line I start singing.

But I have also written some at the piano while playing chord patterns and a melody comes to mind with lyrics showing up later.

I have also taken old ones that I had shelved and revisited them months or years later. Like a ballad that never was quite right that ended up working well as an up-tempo pop piece.

Different locations can be helpful also (city, woods, shore).

I think trying different methods helps the creative process as well as giving your style a lot of variety.
 
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