SONAR3 Studio - worth it?

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kevinb9n

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Say I'm a n00b. I want to

- record audio (acoustic&electric guitars, vocals, perhaps one day a cheap drum machine such as the yamaha dd55 and/or a cheap keyboard such as the casio wk3000)

- have a decent selection of good effects

- actually be able to figure out how to use these effects! (e.g. in audacity, if you choose reverb, it just gives you these seven different parameters that you have to choose. how the hell am I supposed to know what numbers to use? YOU'RE the audio expert, dammit! gimme some presets! at least play my track and let me hear how it changes in realtime as I move the sliders around!)

- be able to apply some of those effects to the monitor mix so that I can hear them in real-time in my headphones as I'm recording

- to do simple punch-ins and overdubs, in a simple fashion and also very simply

- maybe to play around with some MIDI stuff. I don't know what exactly I need here since I don't even have the drum machine or keyboard yet. I just know it sounds very cool.

- to make recordings that are "demo" quality, "give-to-your-friends" quality, "indie" quality, not necessarily "shop-it-around-to-radio-stations" quality.

- Most of all, I just want it to be easy to use. Easy to play around with and try different things and see what they do without having to know a lot of technical crap. I don't want to have to know *exactly* what I want the song to sound like before I sit down. I want the software to foster a process of experimentation where I can try all kinds of things just to see what happens.

I want recording with the software to be FUN.

Now. I get the feeling I would probably be quite happy with SONAR3 Studio. But do I really gotta pony up 300 whole bucks? Would I be just as happy with one of Cakewalk's "lesser" offerings?

FYI I have the audiophile 2496 sound card if that matters.

(also, yes, I know about student discounts, I'd just feel cheesy getting a student to buy it for me. If it's the software I need I'll pay for it.)

signed,
cheap bastard
 
Hey, cheap bastard. I'm a newbie and a cheap bastard too, so I hear where you're comin from. :D I actually started out with Home Studio 2002, but then I realized ACKUS (All Cool Kids Use SONAR), and I thought "Hmmm.... I'm a cool kid." :cool: So I ponied up the extra beans for the Sonar 2 upgrade. Then just recently paid the 99 bones for the upgrade to Sonar 3 Studio. I love it! It does all the stuff you (very clearly) spelled out that you'd like to do. It's so fun, that I spend most of my time just fooling around with it instead of recording/making music. :( :D Well, I figure I'm just learning the tool, and I'm having fun doing it.

Seriously, you may be able to get away with just the Home Studio 2004, since it has a lot of the same stuff as SONAR does, and then if you like it you can always upgrade later. And, the one thing I'm not sure about is real-time effects on the monitor mix. I think I remember hearing that some effects didn't do this - I think there was a thread a while back where someone was trying to use a delay like this with no luck. But I think that for the most part it shouldn't be a problem. The only possible issue could be latency. You've got a nice soundcard there tho, so if you're computer's got some decent sack then you probably have low enough latency.

And of course, one of the coolest thing about the Cakewalk products is this forum. Some real nice, knowledgeable, and helpful people here make it a lot easier to get any problems figured out (not that you should have many). :)

Let us know if you join us! :)
-Jeff
 
Get HS2004 like guttadaj said and If you grow out of it you can upgrade to Sonar for less that what it would cost you to buy Sonar in the first place.
 
I've just started fooling with Sonar 3. So far it's been anything but fun. Spending all my time just trying to get it to work with my PC and interface/mixer. You'd better be very astute in the ways of operating systems/drivers/software/etc. and the way they all interact or, if you have any problems or conflicts, it will kick your butt. If you're not very computer oriented, get a nice little standalone multitrack and you'll be able to have fun making music instead of restarting your computer.
 
Sorry to hear that, Steven. :(

Sounds like another thread is in order. Come on, share your problems with us. You'll feel a lot better once you get them out in the open and off your chest. ;) :D

Seriously, we're here to help. (ok, well me not quite as much as others who know lots more than me, but spill and I'll give it my best shot) :)
 
I haven't had it that long and I want to make sure I've done my homework.....done all that I can do from reading what's already been said....before I start asking stupid questions. I tell you what though, I have never had such a struggle trying to get something to work. I bought some fairly high-end PC equipment thinking it'd just plug and play. I was wrong! Well, I didn't really think it would be that easy, but I wasn't prepared for this kind of scenario. I'm gonna stick it out because I've got about 4000 bucks invested in just the PC/interface/Sonar/software. But to date, my ability to just simply sit down and make some music has been completely destroyed. May have to just hook up my old Korg D8 again. :D I surely hope the effort is worth it before too long. Thanks for the offer of help though. I may need it. You surely don't get much from Tech support people. I think they're mainly disgruntled employees who wish they were fishing and you were dead.
 
Hey, that's great advice! I had no idea I could upgrade from HS2004 to SONAR3. I think I'll go that route.

Out of curiosity, what things that I described above does HS2004 not do, or not do well?

Thanks everyone.
 
Yeah; I used HS2k for a good year or so before going Sonar. And 2004 is much more capable and feature-laden than 2k was. It's a good buy, and you can upgrade and not really lose any money if you need more features.

Honestly if 7 parameters on a reverb confuse you I don't think you want the power of Sonar. No offense. Power comes at a cost.
 
Well, it's nice to have power, but -- for example, CoolEdit 2000 would have parametrized effects, of course, but in the same dialog it would also have a number of presets you could select that would prefill some values to sort of get you into the right ballpark. Seems like a best-of-both-worlds approach.

Or, as I said, if it could just let my song play while I fiddle with the sliders and hear what effect they have, then I'd have a shot at actually learning. It's not a matter of confusion, it's a matter of cost vs. benefit. (ie, I'd rather have decent reverb in 5 minutes than the perfect reverb in 5 hours. Those are my priorities, not everyone's.)
 
Wow - that is a good price!

I think that everything on your list, HS2004 will do probably just as well as SONAR does. Also, regarding the effects, most of them do come with some presets, and you can also tweak as your stuff is playing which I do a lot. (As you drag the slider, you get distortion, but once you stop the drag, it's fine and you hear the change - very easy to use)
 
StevenLindsey said:
You'd better be very astute in the ways of operating systems/drivers/software/etc. and the way they all interact or, if you have any problems or conflicts, it will kick your butt. If you're not very computer oriented, get a nice little standalone multitrack and you'll be able to have fun making music instead of restarting your computer.
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Unfortunately, that is probably true.

I look at this stuff as a little bit like owning a motorcycle. That is, if you plan to buy one you had better know your way around a wrench. Otherwise, just arrange for your pay check to be direct deposited to the repair shop.

Computer-based DAW's offer a lot of power. But getting all the components to play nicely together can be a challange. This mobo doesn't like this sound card which doesn't have good ASIO drivers which your software won't recognize which... well you get the picture.

FWIW, there are a lot of very knowledgeable on this board willing to help. I come here now for ALL my computer related questions, whether they are music/recording related or not. :)

Don't worry about looking dumb. It is certainly better to appear dumb and be making music, than to appear smart while trying to configure IRQ's.

So, where are you having problems???
 
I don't want to hijack the guy's thread. I'll start one when I reach the end-of-my-limits. :D I don't mind appearing to be dumb because in some ways, I am. I'm not a computer geek but I do know a fair amount, maybe just enough to be dangerous. I just don't want to bum people out with questions that I could get an answer to just by reading the manuals, web-sites, etc. I have had apparently several issues since I started with this mess.

Short synopsis: I started out with a dual boot system. XP kept crashing ( 4 times ) during my music tweaking. Found it it was a known issue between XP and ATI graphics card. Finally figured it out..now I can't enable the Large System Cache. Had an issue with the dual boot and my wireless internet network. Reformatted and went to just one OS. Now will have to set up hardware profiles. Tascam install disk was bum..locked up my CD drive. They still haven't sent me a CD. Downloaded the install files. Worked but unstable. Sonar install CD wouldn't load Windows Media Audio. Backed it out and installed it without it. Worked but extremely unstable. Had something on the Sonar CD..spots. They wiped off but now thinking about ininstall/reinstall to see if I can get the WMA on there. Cakewalk would not acknowledge there was anything on the CD. Sonar worked pretty good with WMD drivers...tried the ASIO drivers...Sonar went ape...locking up...have to power down to get out. WMD back, working again. Tascam 1884 will work correctly for about two minutes but then loses some contact. Buttons will work but won't light up...one fader will follow an envelope, one won't. On and on and on... I'm just going to keep working with it and maybe I'll see the patterns eventually and figure it out.

I know that there are some great people in these forums and have availed myself of the accumulated wealth of knowledge here to a large degree. Thanks for the offer. Now back to the guys question. Sonar 3...it's worth it if you can get it to work correctly. It's a powerful program with a lot of useful options for music production. I just think that a lot of this stuff is still in development and you get used as a guinea pig many times. So like I said earlier, if you're willing to constantly tweak, reinstall, restart, etc., go for it. In a way it's kind of interesting and you can learn a lot about computers. In another way, it stinks if you're wanting to make music as quickly and easily as possible. In the latter case, a nice Korg D32XD might be in order. Or an Akai DPS24. Or a Tascam SX1. Maybe a Roland 2480. I'm coming from a Korg D8 which, in spite of its limitations, was a great recorder - very stable and reliable...never failed me once. So..it's disappointing, for me, to try for more power but lose my nice comfortable recording environment. Good luck Kevin with your choices. I hope it works out well for you. A lot of people get set up with PC recording without any of the headaches that I've experienced. Maybe you'll be a lucky one!
 
Really and truly all software is in a developing stage and we get used as guinea pigs. Look at Windows for example. And we have to keep buying the fixes and upgrades. Well, most of us anyway. PC's have always had problems with compatibility issues and software bugs. It gets tiresome when nothing works right, but it sure is great when it does. Do yourself a favor...when you get it all working right, leave it alone. I find that almost every time I change something, or upgrade something, I have to reconfigure other things. It's a real pain.
 
Ok, it's finally whipped me. If anyone has some knowledge of the use of the Tascam FW1884 with Sonar 3, I need it in a bad way. I've started a new thread in the Tascam form (since this is not a Sonar problem, I don't think.) Any help would be appreciated greatly. I will even come and dance at your next wedding. :D

Thanks!
 
Just for future reference.... apparently my Tascam 1884 didn't like the hyperthreading on my PC. I turned it off and the problem went away. This is a quick and easy test for folks that are having ghosty little glitches here and there with there interfaces and software. I think many developers just haven't quite caught up with hyperthreading yet.
 
Uh-oh! That was rather fishy.... :rolleyes: :(

Can't anyone get rid of these cheap ripoffs!




Product is already registered
Click to expand...
Hmmm...




As a bonus i will give you the upgrade to Sonar 3.1 and the manual on pdf. format
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Hmmm... there's no manual in PDF format legaly available.




Paypal only. No credit card payments thru paypal
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Now, I wonder why that is...
 
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