Sonar or Logic?

[MrLip]

I've been a Cakewalk Pro Audio user since version 6 and have spent quite a lot of time with version 9 -- but it's time to move on.

I'm about to finish an album and when I do, it's time to get new software. I'm planning on moving to WinXP.

I have done 1 song on Logic Audio Platinum 4.7 and... well... I don't like it. It's tedius. The interface is as un-intuitive as you can get.

Editing MIDI is a pain because the transport is not integrated into the event list window. When you edit an event and want to listen to it, you have to move your mouse to the transport and drag the time position. In CWPA, if you edit an event, the transport will automatically move there, which makes things much easier.

I also find the "object-oriented" approach difficult to work with. With MIDI, if you're trying to program a drum fill which comes at the end of an object you may end up getting 'stuck' because you cannot insert events after the object's end position. You can always adjust the object so that it covers the necessary time but that requires several clicks and then you can end up overlapping a succeding object, which will cause it to not be played.

This is also a pain when mixing. In Cakewalk, I can select a track, open the event list and see every volume controller change thoughout the whole song. But in Logic, due to the separate 'objects', I only see the volume changes for that specific object.

Everyone complains about Cakewalk's file system, but I think it's great compared to Logic. In Cakewalk, I can select an Audio Clip, and send it to SoundForge to edit it. Any changes I make in SoundForge will take effect in CWPA when I save. And if I screw up, I can always undo in Cakewalk. In Logic, to edit an audio object, I have to look at the object name, open soundforge, go find the file in soundforge, edit it, and if I screw up, I'm dead because I've been working directly on the sound file itself. The only way to avoid this is to manually back up and that can get messy when it comes to filenames.

AND DON'T FORGET ONLY 1 UNDO!!!!!! (Multiple undos are supported in 5.0)

Although, there are a couple things that I like A LOT.

I like the way you can just drag the edge of an audio object to 'resize' or cut out any part you don't want (which is non-destructive). In CWPA 9 you have to click several times to do this using a 'pointer' and 'scissors' and it is DESTRUCTIVE.

AUDIOINSTRUMENTS are awesome. I really like being able to put DirectX (or VST or Logic) effects on MIDI tracks. And the EXS24 sampler is great. It supports SoundFonts and AKAI sample formats and is integrated directly into Logic. I love it cuz I can load up some soundfonts into the EXS and since it's an AudioInstrument, I can apply DX effects just as I would an audio track; and to top it off, it's directly integrated into Logic so I don't have to worry about drivers conflicting or compatibility issues. There's no way I can do any of this in CWPA 9.

Sonar has non-destructive editing, what it's like? Is it as easy as Logic's?

And how about DXi? Are DXi instruments similar to Logic's AudioInstruments?

I've also heard that Sonar 2.0 has a new file system, similar to that of Logic and other programs. But can we still undo like we could in CWPA 9? I hope so.

Everyone around here tells me to use Logic, and I think the two features I mentioned above make it worth the pain it is to use, but I really prefer Cakewalk's interface and ability to work without worrying about screwing everything up.

Can Sonar do what I need?

 

[schwa]

I keep thinking about changing...

But the fact is SONAR does everything I want to do. I have upgraded to v2.0 and find its stable an capable. If I wanted to get an use the logic control surface I might change, but for now I find that the SONAR product does everything I can imagine. Also I think the WDM driver model allows for (slightly) better latencies than ASIO.

That all said, I would probably pick my application based on the driver model that works best for my card. I use a MOTU 2408, and its WDM drivers are quite good.

 

[MrLip]

I'm using a Delta 1010. I've never used it's WDM drivers though.

How does Sonar's non-destructive editing work? And can you elaborate on the new file system?

Can anyone recommend a DXi sampler that's SoundFont and AKAI compatible?

 

[schwa]

The Delta WDM drivers are first rate. At least according to the folks on the SONAR newsgroup.

Basically the non descructive editing "hides" the part of the clip you don't want to hear. I haven't used it much, but it does work fine.

Sonar comes with a DXI sampler (Livesynth) as well as a new one in 2.0 called cyclone. I don;t work much with samplers, but the live synth again is well endorsed by the newsgroup. I think Cyclone will read Akai, but I'm not sure. In any case there are a number of samplers available, and more coming.

The file system is another new feature I have not used, the old one works fine for me. Basically, it allows you to group a project's data in a single folder.

 

[Paul881]

Mr Lip,

I'll try to answer some of the questions and points you raised in no particular order.

Sonar vs 2.0 saves clips/tracks as sub-files in a bundled format in the name of your song/track, instead of the inane random file names that previous CW versions have.

Sonar also has slip editing so that you can non-destructively re-size tracks size. It is so easy and powerful to use.

DXi fx and instruments are also awesome, similar I guess to Logic AudioInstruments. And all integrated into the program.

Sonar is winning support because of its intuitive interface, I use it because I have'nt the time to learn anything complex.

The cakewalk boys have a winner with Sonar, its popularity is growing all the time. But in the end, its your choice.

Hope the above helps.