SONAR Midi Echo?

[kgbjamin]

Hello Sonar Users.
Have any of you had any success using the Midi Echo option under the project tab in SONAR. If I've interputed this right this can set the program up to pass midi data thru, say from a master controller to a sound module. The trouble is I can't get SONAR to pass multi channel midi data correctly. I've set up the individual tracks to respective channels and tried many variations under in the midi echo window but have had no success.
Other than this SONAR will record and playback multi-channel midi data simultaneously correctly but routes all of the incoming data down to one channel when it passes it out to a sound module. Anybody had any success with this???

 

[elbenj]

The echo function is actually used to monitor your external synth while it is in the Local off mode. Otherwise you wouldnt be able to hear what you were playing until after it was recorded in Cakewalk and the performance played back. In other words leave the midi echo active for all channels at all times.

The issue about Sonar" not passing "multichannel midi. Im not sure I understand you on this one.

If you have recorded midi sequences in Cakewalk with each having its own separte track and a separate midi channel,
then you can assigned each track to any sound module you have in your system. This includes internal and external sound modules
providing you have the necessary patches made within Cake and the physical patches for the external modules.

Let us know what equipment you are using and what patches and settings you have made so far and maybe we can better assist you.

 

[kgbjamin]

I got an answer but didn't like it!!!

Hey Elbenjamin (?),
Thanks for replying to my post. In addition to posting my question here I also e-mailed Cakewalk. The Cake tech explained it to me. You see, I recorded my entire song using a MPC and then transfered it to Sonar. When I recorded it in Sonar I transfered all of my midi channels simultaneously (about 10 tracks) Well the Cake tech told me that Sonar can only midi-echo to one channel at a time for playback.
I really found this strange because if you wanted to record say a multi-midi piece live performance you could only monitor one piece via your CPU. But then again maybe it's not so strange and I'm asking for 2 much, but Sonar recorded most of the tracks flawlessly and when I went to play back what I recorded everything was close to perfect.
I did run into a couple of problems though:
1. Sonar (acting as the slave) will not echo a midi device on a channel that my master controller (MPC) is currently on. In other words if Sonar is on ch 1 and the MPC is on ch 1 no sound out of my Proteus 2000 (there is no midi loop here my MPC is configured to send data to the PC only).
2. I had intermittent problems (no sound or record in Sonar)with some channels while attempting to record data from my MPC. I had to go so far as to replay my original midi track in Sonar. As far as I could tell I had all of my settings right on the track pane and in the midi echo option window as well. I even swapped midi cables with still no-joy here. My MPC was able to play the original data when connected directly to the sound module.
3. Sonar dropped out a few times when I attempted to record some multi-channel data. I would say it was my PC but I'm running an Athlon 1.4ghz w/1 gig of ram and W2K OS.

I'm sorry if I rambled a bit here but over the past 48 hours or so I've spent what seems like 42 of them in my studio and a good bit of that time was chasing minor cpu/program? gripes.
You may think it was a bit redundant to record original midi in the MPC and then transfer them to Sonar, but I still haven't been able to duplicate my drum tracks using Sonar (I realize this is a reflection of my own abilities)
Finally I still haven't been able to get the real time "automation" feature to work at all in Sonar. Maybe you can help me with this Elbenj. I followed the product manual and Scott Garrigus' book to the letter with no joy.....

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT

 

[elbenj]

Hey kgbjamin,

O K, after rereading your post, i think i got a feel for what you are trying to do. It appears that in a few of them you are trying to do something that can,t be done ( which you may have already discovered) or there might be simply another way to do it.

First of all, you mentioned the MPC and the Proteus 2000. Ive heard of these pieces but not sure exactly what they are. Is the MPC a controller, a sampler, a sound module or a combination of all. Same question for the Proteus 2000. In any case, I would recommend connecting them to a separate midi cables thru your midi interface. Meaning you will need a midi interface with at least 2 ins and 2 outs. Ex: Midisport 2x2. Dont use the midi thru jacks or dont daisy chain the three elements (PC, MPC, and the Proteus),UNLESS the MPC is a contoller only and the Proteus is
a sound module only.

Lets get that part straight before we proceed on.

 

[kgbjamin]

as we proceed...

Hey Elbenj,
The "MPC" is an Akai MPC 2000 Sampler/Sequencer/Classic piece (in my book). It is real easy to use (even for a newbie like me) and it has an awesome sequencing engine. I used it as my master midi controller before I decided to make the quantum leap to PC based recording. It has 2 midi in/out ports, and 8 audio out jacks for recorded samples. Mainly used for dance oriented types of music, but I'm sure you could sequence just about anything on it.
The "Proteus" is an EMU Proteus 2000 sound module. This is strictly a sound module and it's another nice piece to have. In my configuration I have more than a 1000 sounds in this rack mounted module. You should check out Akai and EMU's web pages for more info on these items. I've been real pleased with both of them. I have these components along with some others connected to a midiman usb 4x4. Sonar recognizes all of my devices and their patches via the patch library (a nice feature).
OK, you were right about me trying to do the impossible with the multi-channel-midi-echo thing. Cakewalk cleared this up for me. It's a pity the program doesn't work this way. What concerns me now are the items that I've mentioned in a previous post. I have not been able to get Sonar to sync with the MPC correctly for one. Shouldn't I be able to use MTC or SMTPE with my MPC as the controller? The MPC does support these formats. I can get Sonar to sync correctly from the beginning of a song but haven't been able to get it to sync from any other part of a song correctly. In the past, I ve been able to achieve this using my MPC with other devices but not with Sonar.
Also, have you had any luck using the "Record Automation" feature in Sonar? I'd appreciate any advise you can give me on these issues.

 

[elbenj]

O K...Ive heard nothing but good things about the Akai MPC and the 8 audio outs are a big plus...can you route the audio within the MPC as you please? How many outs does the proteus have?

Let me interject this, I actually prefer to use Cake 9 for midi over Sonar. I simply dont like the layout for midi in the track view. You may want to consider using Cake for some portions of your midi work in particular the beginning processes...you can bounce back between the two as needed as long as you are saving your work as you go...by the way..get use to hitting that save icon on the toolbar...it will save you hours of heartache..

With your setup.. I would simply use Cake as your main playback sequencer..this will mean dumping your sequences from the MPC into Cake. Lets take the worse case scenario and thats is a complete project in the MPC..and transfer it to Cake..

I would do it one instrument at a time...and start with the drum kit first...You are gonna have to be fairly proficient on the MPC for this so I hope you are....set the MPC up to transmit and recieve midi data on ch 10...I use 10 because it is the standard for Genereal Midi instruments thus giving you the flexibility to use
those modules in the future if you like....

Mute all of the other instruments in the sequence for now..
Pick just one patch for all of the elements of the drum for now
we just want to be able to hear all the elements at this point

Arm Cake to record on track 10...and midi channel 10...I aligned the tracks with the midi channels just for the sake of simplicity
I,m assuming that you know how to assigned and set up your parameters as you have mentioned this earlier..

The one you may not know is how to set Cake up to sync with the MPC..this will be done utilizing midi sync...Go to Options>Project>Clock tab and select mid sync..while you are here go to Midi in and select all the midi channels ...and select Midi echo auto..i believe these are the defalut settings but check anyway...

Click record in Cake..you should see a message that says.."waiting on midi sync" all you have to do now is click play in the MPC and Cake will begin recording....

I will finish the rest of this process later tonite...I have to get ready for work...this is actually the second attempt at doing this
my cat unplug the puter the first time around

Are you with me so far?

 

[kgbjamin]

so far....

Elbenj,
Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, I had to attend a funeral today. The Proteus has 4 mono outs and one s/pdif. It is also Eprom expandable, that is you can purchase the sounds from other EMU sound modules and install them in this unit. You can also store you own samples to a ROM card and plug it in to the Proteus (haven't tried this yet).
The sounds are re-routable within the MPC and it has internal effects, a virtual sound mixing board, and s/pdif out as well. About the only set back to the MPC is that you can only sample at a 16 bit rate.
Unfortunately I don't have a copy of cake 9 but I do have cake 7. I understand all of your directions to this point but I've been warned that cake 7 was a little buggy (but so is sonar right?) so right now I don't even have it installed.
I noticed that Sonar's latest patch, 1.0.2 was supposed to address problems with automation and midi sync. Have you had any luck getting the automation functions to work in your set up? I installed patch 1.0.2 a while back but I can't seemed to get Sonar to midi sync correctly or real time automate didley squat! I am waiting for cakewalk to respond to an e-mail I sent them a couple of days ago. I'll post their response if I get it.

 

[elbenj]

I have not used the automation or midi sync in Sonar as of yet.