Something missing from my mix... does is just need mastering?

C

Cazzbar

Throbbing Member
Something missing from my mix... does it just need mastering?

Hey guys, I've spent the last few months mixing a few songs for our band and I'm really pleased with the result, mainly thanks to all the great tips from this place.

Playing the CD through many stereo systems it seems to hold its own against a lot of commercial stuff, so I was thinking job done.

But I was given a DVD recently of a local band and played it through my stereo television, I was really impressed. The sound quality was the same as watching a music video station. I then had the idea of playing my CD on the same DVD player (and out through the television) to compare the quality. To my horror my CD sounded like a hand held radio in comparision. Totally lacking any width and depth, and it felt like I was listening to mono recording after the glorious DVD.

To the side of my television is pair of hi-fi stereo speakers connected to the DVD player. When I switched these on as well it was a different story. My CD was again standing strong against the DVD.

I haven't looked at mastering, and I know this is a vital final part of the process. Many people suggest spending as much as you can afford and leave this to the pros!

But would you say mastering is the main difference here between my CD and the DVD? Or is there something I can do at home to help bridge this gap.

Cheers.
Mike.
 
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Without actually hearing the DVD, it's hard to tell - It could be in a different format (other than just 'stereo') or it could really be overdone for the very point of sounding good through TV speakers.

If you throw another "pro" CD in your DVD player, how does THAT sound?

But yeah, I'm one of those who feel mastering is vitally important - No, John. Really? ESPECIALLY when the recording process may have been performed under less-than-stellar conditions.
 
I will try another audio CD through the DVD player tonight (how come the obvious is sometimes not obvious, slaps head)

And now you mention it, I guess DVDs have to sound good through TV speakers as that's going to be their main use!

Maybe the audio track on the DVD was specially mastered for small TV speakers. I've little to no idea what processing goes on in the mastering phase so I was just wondering if there's anything obvious I could do before the CD is sent off to a mastering house... I'm more than happy with the tracking, all very clean, and through my monitors I wouldn't change any of the levels, and I rarely need any EQ.

That reminds me, I've an exceptionally basic question to ask here! What does a mastering house require?! e.g. For a single song, I've always assumed it was an un-compressed, un-normalised single wav file... I know I've added slight compression to a few of my tracks within the song... so would a mastering house prefer separate uncompressed wav files? Or would that constitute a mixing fee as well then!
 
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One of the benifits of good mastering is that it will help that material sound good on a wide range of systems. I strongly suggest people taking their stuff to real mastering engineers.
 
DVD audio also is 24 bit, and has a 128db of dynamic range instead of the 96db you get on a CD. Trust me, in the proper hands that can account for a MAJOR difference in sonic quality.

Especially, as pointed out earlier, if the audio was mixed specifically for DVD (even more so if it is 5.1 sound).
 
Ronan said:
One of the benifits of good mastering is that it will help that material sound good on a wide range of systems. I strongly suggest people taking their stuff to real mastering engineers.
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I'm with Ronan on this, if your CD sounds lame on TV speakers, but good through headphones or higher fidelity speakers, you most likely don't have good quality in the midrange. The midrange is where the true character of a mix stands out, it's one of the major things (IMHO) that separates masters that will translate well with those that don't.
 
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. . . or it could be that he has phase cancellations going on that show up when everything is summed to mono.

I realize you were playing it back on a stereo TV, but it could be that due to size and proximity that what you were hearing was, in a sense, mostly mono from where you were listening.

This could explain why everything sounded normal again once you switched to the wider stereo spread of the hifi speakers.
 
chessrock said:
. . . or it could be that he has phase cancellations going on that show up when everything is summed to mono.

I realize you were playing it back on a stereo TV, but it could be that due to size and proximity that what you were hearing was, in a sense, mostly mono from where you were listening.

This could explain why everything sounded normal again once you switched to the wider stereo spread of the hifi speakers.
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Good point 'rock.

I would think that you should be able to hear phase issues on any system though, kinda gives you that cross-eyed feeling ...
 
masteringhouse said:
I would think that you should be able to hear phase issues on any system though, kinda gives you that cross-eyed feeling ...
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. . . or that cross-brained feeling I get when I wake up with a hangover? :D
 
Mastering takes the single stereo channel and plays about with it with EQ, Limiting expanding, compressing, Splitting frequencies to produce a well together all round smooth sound. I think there is a Steinberg mastering programme, but i prefer the option of paying pros.
 
Massive Master said:
Without actually hearing the DVD, it's hard to tell - It could be in a different format (other than just 'stereo') or it could really be overdone for the very point of sounding good through TV speakers.
QUOTE]


Contrary to that line I just want to mention something as a professional in the field.

The secret to great sound from one medium to another (tv, radio, etc.) is the simple fact that they are not over done at all.

In the industry, we avoid compressing (if we can) a final product since that's actually going to be compressed for radio or TV broadcast later on anyway.

Know what I mean?

So if you have a song thats very compressed and you play it through your speakers through your TV or through marginal speakers, you will usually get unimpressive results.
Click to expand...
 
Contrary to that line I just want to mention something as a professional in the field.

The secret to great sound from one medium to another (tv, radio, etc.) is the simple fact that they are not over done at all.

In the industry, we avoid compressing (if we can) a final product since that's actually going to be compressed for radio or TV broadcast later on anyway.

Know what I mean?

So if you have a song thats very compressed and you play it through your speakers through your TV or through marginal speakers, you will usually get unimpressive results.
Click to expand...

Absolutely.

That's one of the reasons why I have to laugh (or cry) every time I hear that hackneyed expression "Radio Ready".
 
Cazzbar said:
Hey guys, I've spent the last few months mixing a few songs for our band and I'm really pleased with the result, mainly thanks to all the great tips from this place.

Playing the CD through many stereo systems it seems to hold its own against a lot of commercial stuff, so I was thinking job done.

But I was given a DVD recently of a local band and played it through my stereo television, I was really impressed. The sound quality was the same as watching a music video station. I then had the idea of playing my CD on the same DVD player (and out through the television) to compare the quality. To my horror my CD sounded like a hand held radio in comparision. Totally lacking any width and depth, and it felt like I was listening to mono recording after the glorious DVD.

To the side of my television is pair of hi-fi stereo speakers connected to the DVD player. When I switched these on as well it was a different story. My CD was again standing strong against the DVD.

I haven't looked at mastering, and I know this is a vital final part of the process. Many people suggest spending as much as you can afford and leave this to the pros!

But would you say mastering is the main difference here between my CD and the DVD? Or is there something I can do at home to help bridge this gap.

Cheers.
Mike.
Click to expand...

One thing that many pros do in the mixdown is to mix in mono through one speaker. George Martin did this all the time. After the song is mixed then the song can be broken out in stereo. This can find any phase issues as well as balancing issues. If it sounds great in mono, stereo should be a cakewalk.
 
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