Something i just dont understand about mixing

[appleyardrules]

i hear alot of mixes and i want to be able to achieve the great presence the sound has, how the drums seem like there in front of you, and the guitar seems to be fully of puncha dn even emotion, and the vocals too. like , i was looking for some tips to make the instruments have great presence, and this is really hard to describe so i hope you all arent too confused haha

 

[Massive Master]

1) Start with instruments that produce really great sounds - That means fresh heads / strings / whatever.

2) Pick them up with just the right mic being driven by just the right preamp in just the right sounding room.

3) Don't record it too hot - Use the gear as it was designed, and it will sound right (sorry, had to throw that in).

4) Stay out of the way.

It's not rocket surgery, but *everything* is of the utmost importance from start to finish. If one piece of the puzzle is out of line, they may as well all be out of line. The wrong mic, the wrong placement of the mic, the wrong preamp, the wrong signal level, sounds that sound good by themselves but don't fit well with others - Any of that *on one track* can mess it all up.

 

[johnbob]

I've been finding lately that sometimes you can start to go on auto pilot when tracking and forget to take each stage totally seriously. Respecting the importance of each mic and it's level, each guitar string and drum head and singer who may need a fresh glass of water with honey and bit o lemon can make a world of difference.

 

[chazba]

Presence and Passion

Ditto on the previous comments and I would like to add a note about having that "presence" and "emotion"
The way to get those in a mix is to have them on the track. There is no plug-in or device that you can insert into the chain to get those qualities into a flat performance. What you are talking about, I believe, is that indefineable "star quality". Some got it, some don't. There used to be a scam going around, maybe 25 years ago that had the slogan "Dare to be Great". Maybe that phrase was the only thing of worth that came out of that fiasco. The point is that you have to be a BOLD player to get a great performance to track. Even on a tender, sensitive ballad, the playing has to be passionate , not shy or tentative. Believe me , it will show in the mix, and you cant process it away.

chazba

 

[chessrock]

One of the biggest fallacies I see is that people tend to separate the sound quality and tone of the instrument/source itself ... from the recording quality or mixing technique.

I'll give you an example ... let's say you're tracking drums. And let's say the heads sound kind of dead, or maybe the cymbals are a little harsh sounding. Maybe you haven't changed the heads in a while, or perhaps you skimped a little on the cymbals when Guitar Center had their most recent Memorial Day sale.

If you track the drums this way, it will be next to impossible to get a good recorded drum sound. You could use the greatest signal chain on the planet and record in a world-class studio ... but when you listen back to it, you will swear it was recorded with Radio Shack mics in to an Audio Buddy or an old multitracker at 12-bit resolution.

Far too often, people will listen back and think it must have something to do with their mics. The drums don't sound very lively. Perhaps I need a livelier sounding mic with more high end clarity and definition. I read an article on mic pres and slew rate ... I probably just need faster, more expensive mic pres with the best possible transient response.

Or maybe the cymbals sound harsh. Hmmm. Must be those cheap Chinese condensers I'm using that impart too much high end. Should I try a ribbon mic instead? Maybe I need some tube equipment. I read in a magazine article that tubes will make things "warm." Yea, that's definitely what I need. Warm.

... and the process just continues onward from there. Before long, you can spend all of your savings on new mics, boutique preamps, Apoge converters, etc. When all you ever really needed was to change the drum heads and tune the kit. Recording a professional drummer with a professional kit can be a really eye-opening experience. When everything sounds right at the source, the job of the engineer can be depressingly insignificant in the bigger picture of things.

.

 

[Fishmed]

One of the biggest fallacies I see is that people tend to separate the sound quality and tone of the instrument/source itself ... from the recording quality or mixing technique.

I'll give you an example ... let's say you're tracking drums. And let's say the heads sound kind of dead, or maybe the cymbals are a little harsh sounding. Maybe you haven't changed the heads in a while, or perhaps you skimped a little on the cymbals when Guitar Center had their most recent Memorial Day sale.

If you track the drums this way, it will be next to impossible to get a good recorded drum sound. You could use the greatest signal chain on the planet and record in a world-class studio ... but when you listen back to it, you will swear it was recorded with Radio Shack mics in to an Audio Buddy or an old multitracker at 12-bit resolution.

Far too often, people will listen back and think it must have something to do with their mics. The drums don't sound very lively. Perhaps I need a livelier sounding mic with more high end clarity and definition. I read an article on mic pres and slew rate ... I probably just need faster, more expensive mic pres with the best possible transient response.

Or maybe the cymbals sound harsh. Hmmm. Must be those cheap Chinese condensers I'm using that impart too much high end. Should I try a ribbon mic instead? Maybe I need some tube equipment. I read in a magazine article that tubes will make things "warm." Yea, that's definitely what I need. Warm.

... and the process just continues onward from there. Before long, you can spend all of your savings on new mics, boutique preamps, Apoge converters, etc. When all you ever really needed was to change the drum heads and tune the kit. Recording a professional drummer with a professional kit can be a really eye-opening experience. When everything sounds right at the source, the job of the engineer can be depressingly insignificant in the bigger picture of things.

.

So True; I have given in a time or two on clients who insist on using this piece of equipment or that one just because they are comfortable with the sound, but I know that it won't sound good in the final mix. Unfortunately when it comes time to mix, those tracks become a nightmare to adjust so they would sound half-way decent in the mix. If you compromise anywhere along the way, you will comprise the production of the whole song.

 

[dementedchord]

$ .02

man... i hate it when you guys say it all before i even get a chance....lmao...

 

[Chibi Nappa]

i hear alot of mixes and i want to be able to achieve the great presence the sound has, how the drums seem like there in front of you, and the guitar seems to be fully of puncha dn even emotion, and the vocals too. like , i was looking for some tips to make the instruments have great presence, and this is really hard to describe so i hope you all arent too confused haha

What most people don't understand is that this is a recording question, not a mixing question. If the instruments don't have that "great presence" and don't seem "full of punch and emotion" before you even move a fader to mix, they never will sound like that.

Belive it or not, if you just pull up all of your faders to unity with no effects, no eq, no anything... that's pretty much what the song will sound like. So if it sounds amatuer then, it will always sound amateur. Likewise if it sounds professional then, you're set.

 

[spazex]

What most people don't understand is that this is a recording question, not a mixing question. If the instruments don't have that "great presence" and don't seem "full of punch and emotion" before you even move a fader to mix, they never will sound like that.

Belive it or not, if you just pull up all of your faders to unity with no effects, no eq, no anything... that's pretty much what the song will sound like. So if it sounds amatuer then, it will always sound amateur. Likewise if it sounds professional then, you're set.

Thank you, I was confusingly thinking the same thing.

 

[littledog]

What most people don't understand is that this is a recording question, not a mixing question. If the instruments don't have that "great presence" and don't seem "full of punch and emotion" before you even move a fader to mix, they never will sound like that.

Belive it or not, if you just pull up all of your faders to unity with no effects, no eq, no anything... that's pretty much what the song will sound like. So if it sounds amatuer then, it will always sound amateur. Likewise if it sounds professional then, you're set.

Yes and no. I'm not arguing against getting great musicians, great instruments, great performances, etc.

But sometimes you can have all of that and still have a mix that sounds like crap because some people just don't know how to mix.

For instance, the classic mistake of soloing every instrument and making each individual track sound "killer" when soloed - but then when you add them all together it sounds like oatmeal.

A lot of the time, a mix lacks punch and clarity because tracks are competing with each other and masking each other. A lot has been written on this in the past, but generally the idea is to use panning and EQ to get each instrument to sit in it's own unique space and frequency range so the mix has some clarity. This may mean rolling off some of the beautiful tone that an instrument has when heard in the room so it doesn't compete with another track. No one is going to hear the instrument soloed - they are going to hear the mix. (Unless there is a breakdown section - in which case you may want a different EQ or no EQ at all just for that section).

 

[Monkey Allen]

1) Start with instruments that produce really great sounds - That means fresh heads / strings / whatever.

2) Pick them up with just the right mic being driven by just the right preamp in just the right sounding room.

3) Don't record it too hot - Use the gear as it was designed, and it will sound right (sorry, had to throw that in).

4) Stay out of the way.

It's not rocket surgery, but *everything* is of the utmost importance from start to finish. If one piece of the puzzle is out of line, they may as well all be out of line. The wrong mic, the wrong placement of the mic, the wrong preamp, the wrong signal level, sounds that sound good by themselves but don't fit well with others - Any of that *on one track* can mess it all up.

You make it sound so easy!

But seriously, what would you say for a person who has bought equipment bit by bit over the years and finally has a half decent mic, a preamp, monitors, nice instrument etc...

Would your advice be something like...'well if you are happy to be a hobbyist and do it for your own enjoyment, then you should just work toward getting the best sound out of what you got'?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Would your advice be something like...'well if you are happy to be a hobbyist and do it for your own enjoyment, then you should just work toward getting the best sound out of what you got'?

Nothing wrong with that.

But what happens far too often on these boards is that people want to have it both ways. They want to work at a hobby level (not necessarily just gear, though that's a big part of it, but also technique and work ethic) and also wind up with a pro sound. The #1 question above all on these boards is, "how do I get my mucking around to sound like the latest pro CD?" The answer is to stop mucking around and do things like a pro engineer/producer. The way to get a pro sound is to do things like a pro.

Unfortunately when we give that answer it's seen as elitist or snobbish; "this is, after all, 'home recording', not 'pro studio recording'." Well then, stop asking how to make a pro recording! It's really that simple. There are no shortcuts, there are no magic boxes, and there are no "Easy" buttons.

That said, of course one can make a pro-sounding recording at home. It requires these basic ingedients:

- performers ready to perform at pro level. A hack guitar player or drummer will sound like a hack guitar player or drummer no matter who engineers them.

- an engineer/producer with an "ear". This is I think one of the biggest and most overlooked problems with bad home recordings, and probably the weakest link in most home recording chains. This board is filled with those who's ears can't tell the difference between 200Hz and 400Hz, who are still fooled by volume (I'm not talking the volume wars here, I'm talking about the psychoacoustics of volume), who mix by RTA, and who think that clipping is inaudible mot of the time, and when it is audible it actually sounds good on acoustic instruments like drums and vocals. Unless or until one trains their ears to engineer levels and not just music advocate levels, they will never create a mix that sounds anything more than hobbiest, regardless of their gear.

- the disclipine to treat the recording process seriously, correctly, and in detail from the get-go. Get the tracking right. Learn to actually mix the tracking and not just compress it and layer the tracks like layers in lasagna. Learn what mastering actually means, and that volume is only one small part of it.

Instead we have a whole bunch of folk who - while they might not say this,this is how they actually work - use mixing to get the tracking right and use mastering to get the mix right. This is a completly ass backwards way to do it, it's the way that it's done by those who think that their magic plugins will save them from actually having to learn how to engineer.

Someone want a pro sounding recording? They won't find it in a box. A pro sounding recording is *engineered*. It's engineered by someone with ear, technique, and creativity. Ears can be trained and technique can be learned by anyone. The creativity will then follow.

G.

P.S. John, you get points for the phrase "rocket surgery" alone. That cracked me up and is getting put into my permanent rolodex of catch phrases

 

[chessrock]

The #1 question above all on these boards is, "how do I get my mucking around to sound like the latest pro CD?" The answer is to stop mucking around and do things like a pro engineer/producer. The way to get a pro sound is to do things like a pro.

Unfortunately when we give that answer it's seen as elitist or snobbish; "this is, after all, 'home recording', not 'pro studio recording'." Well then, stop asking how to make a pro recording! It's really that simple.

I hear that.

.

 

[travelin travis]

Nothing wrong with that.

But what happens far too often on these boards is that people want to have it both ways. They want to work at a hobby level (not necessarily just gear, though that's a big part of it, but also technique and work ethic) and also wind up with a pro sound. The #1 question above all on these boards is, "how do I get my mucking around to sound like the latest pro CD?" The answer is to stop mucking around and do things like a pro engineer/producer. The way to get a pro sound is to do things like a pro.

Unfortunately when we give that answer it's seen as elitist or snobbish; "this is, after all, 'home recording', not 'pro studio recording'." Well then, stop asking how to make a pro recording! It's really that simple. There are no shortcuts, there are no magic boxes, and there are no "Easy" buttons.

That said, of course one can make a pro-sounding recording at home. It requires these basic ingedients:

- performers ready to perform at pro level. A hack guitar player or drummer will sound like a hack guitar player or drummer no matter who engineers them.

- an engineer/producer with an "ear". This is I think one of the biggest and most overlooked problems with bad home recordings, and probably the weakest link in most home recording chains. This board is filled with those who's ears can't tell the difference between 200Hz and 400Hz, who are still fooled by volume (I'm not talking the volume wars here, I'm talking about the psychoacoustics of volume), who mix by RTA, and who think that clipping is inaudible mot of the time, and when it is audible it actually sounds good on acoustic instruments like drums and vocals. Unless or until one trains their ears to engineer levels and not just music advocate levels, they will never create a mix that sounds anything more than hobbiest, regardless of their gear.

- the disclipine to treat the recording process seriously, correctly, and in detail from the get-go. Get the tracking right. Learn to actually mix the tracking and not just compress it and layer the tracks like layers in lasagna. Learn what mastering actually means, and that volume is only one small part of it.

Instead we have a whole bunch of folk who - while they might not say this,this is how they actually work - use mixing to get the tracking right and use mastering to get the mix right. This is a completly ass backwards way to do it, it's the way that it's done by those who think that their magic plugins will save them from actually having to learn how to engineer.

Someone want a pro sounding recording? They won't find it in a box. A pro sounding recording is *engineered*. It's engineered by someone with ear, technique, and creativity. Ears can be trained and technique can be learned by anyone. The creativity will then follow.

G.

P.S. John, you get points for the phrase "rocket surgery" alone. That cracked me up and is getting put into my permanent rolodex of catch phrases

Good post. This pretty much describes 99% of my recording problems. I'm fkn lazy. That's all there is to it.