Someone PLEASE tell me what I'm doing wrong

[Bguzaldo]

I've been recording for 2 years now, I'm 17 years old and I've learned everything completely on my own until now. I'd consider my self an advanced newbie at this point because I know a lot on typical set ups mic placements, dubbing, the works. The problem is, I'm not a getting a "full/warm" sound it seems sort of backed off and not very together or full. My set-up is most likely the problem, which is:

Snare: 57
Toms: e609
Bass drum: OM-2 [hahah]
Overheads: MXL 990 and 991 [they're on their way to the can don't worry]
Guitar cabs: 57
Bass cabs: OM-2
VOX: MXL 990 but i just bought a RODE NT1000

So mic wise I'm not horrible, problem is, i just plug this all right into my firepod then into my computer running cubase. I know i need a rack of some sort i just dont know what to put it in, i know obviously preamps, compressors, limiters, power conditioners but i need to know which ones first what bands etc. I like to do distorted guitar panned L and R same with overheads and sometimes back up vocals. I just have a feeling there's a major component or process I'm missing and I need some help to get a well rounded full warm sound. And finally here's the disaster of signals i unfortunately call my recordings....

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=226239787

sorry its a myspace....

Please any critisism or help you can offer will be extremely appreciated.

Thanks if your still reading,
-Barrett

 

[drossfile]

i kinda dig the music--it takes me back to my teenage years. and believe me, you could be doing a lot worse sonically. in fact, the bass guitar sounds remarkably good for a miked cabinet. bass is pretty much the one thing you can record direct and not get razzed for (although i record all my electric guitars direct too). but you've gotten a pretty nice, clear sound here out of a cab.

now for the problems:

are you clipping your channels at all? it could be the myspace compression, but there's some serious distortion going on in the first track.

is your room treated? honestly, this is the best thing you can possibly do for your sound. i was astounded at the difference it made when i built and hung my own broadband absorbers.

i think the drums are what are giving you the most trouble. try the recorderman/glyn johns setup (google it), and learn to use your ears to tweak freqs--eq is your friend!

on guitars, back off on the distortion, and go heavy on midrange, light on lows and highs. i know it seems counterintuitive, but believe me it makes them heavier.

a mic upgrade will also help (d6, d112, 52, or atm250de for kick, better OHs), but not nearly as much as the 3 aforementioned items.

and now, in the course of typing out this response, i've heard all of your songs, and really enjoyed listening.

request sent.

 

[Bguzaldo]

i kinda dig the music--it takes me back to my teenage years. and believe me, you could be doing a lot worse sonically. in fact, the bass guitar sounds remarkably good for a miked cabinet. bass is pretty much the one thing you can record direct and not get razzed for (although i record all my electric guitars direct too). but you've gotten a pretty nice, clear sound here out of a cab.

now for the problems:

are you clipping your channels at all? it could be the myspace compression, but there's some serious distortion going on in the first track.

is your room treated? honestly, this is the best thing you can possibly do for your sound. i was astounded at the difference it made when i built and hung my own broadband absorbers.

i think the drums are what are giving you the most trouble. try the recorderman/glyn johns setup (google it), and learn to use your ears to tweak freqs--eq is your friend!

on guitars, back off on the distortion, and go heavy on midrange, light on lows and highs. i know it seems counterintuitive, but believe me it makes them heavier.

a mic upgrade will also help (d6, d112, 52, or atm250de for kick, better OHs), but not nearly as much as the 3 aforementioned items.

and now, in the course of typing out this response, i've heard all of your songs, and really enjoyed listening.

request sent.

God thank you so much! Is the glyn johns setup the floor tom/ above snare technique? i read about that in tape op and started doing it recently, but not on these ones, thanks so much for the help, Im working on treating my room for recording. Do you think the no preamps is why im not getting a full sound?

Thanks again so much
-Barrett

 

[guitar zero]

Just gave a listen, and it's not as bad as you think. The performances are good enough. I like your music. I think if you want to improve the sound, where I'd focus your energy is (really just echoing what drossfile said):
1) Room treatment. At times it sounds like kind of a sonic free for all, and I think if you could get the room reflections under control with some broadband absorption it would clear things up a bit. Should really help your drums as well.
2) May want to think about better drum mics and by all means, try out what drossfile recommended in terms of placement.
3) EQ is your friend. Here's an article about clearing up the mix with some selective EQ.
http://www.homerecordingconnection.com/news.php?action=view_story&id=154

 

[drossfile]

God thank you so much! Is the glyn johns setup the floor tom/ above snare technique? i read about that in tape op and started doing it recently, but not on these ones, thanks so much for the help, Im working on treating my room for recording. Do you think the no preamps is why im not getting a full sound?

Thanks again so much
-Barrett

glyn johns is indeed the one you're describing (i just read it in tapeop also, but started using recorderman last year). recorderman is a different version of gj, but similar.

you are using preamps--they just happen to be built into your firepod. i can't speak to the quality of them, as i don't use an interface (i'm an old-school standalone daw guy ) but iirc, the firepod's pres are perfectly usable according to several members here.

good luck!

 

[jarrydee]

I like your tunes...Im not sure if it's myspace or if you are useing way to much compression? outside of that I like it!!!

 

[Bguzaldo]

Just gave a listen, and it's not as bad as you think. The performances are good enough. I like your music. I think if you want to improve the sound, where I'd focus your energy is (really just echoing what drossfile said):
1) Room treatment. At times it sounds like kind of a sonic free for all, and I think if you could get the room reflections under control with some broadband absorption it would clear things up a bit. Should really help your drums as well.
2) May want to think about better drum mics and by all means, try out what drossfile recommended in terms of placement.
3) EQ is your friend. Here's an article about clearing up the mix with some selective EQ.
http://www.homerecordingconnection.com/news.php?action=view_story&id=154

Man that EQ article saved my life! thanks so much for all the help. I only ask questions like this because I want to desert my "newbie" label. Haha thanks for helping out.

 

[Bguzaldo]

But no one thinks that my recordings are lacking in Dynamics, or body? I just feel like they're missing a lot and I can't figure out what. The EQing helped but I can't get that togetherness I'm looking for, and its not very "in your face". Thanks for all the excellent help i got so far, but if you feel like continuing to help me please do, I'm sick of being a n00b!!

-Barrett

 

[Rokket]

Don't compare your recordings to what is out there right now. They squash the living hell out of them and turn a decent performance into a white noise hell. You have good dynamics. The only thing you are lacking IMHO is a little more experience mixing. Tracking seems to be fair, so if your room was treated as was mentioned, you are halfway there. Practice mixing. Hang out and listen to what is posted in the mp3 clinic. There are some really good AE and AE wannabe's that post in there. Read the critiques and try to decipher what the poster is telling the thread starter.

Good luck!

 

[drossfile]

But no one thinks that my recordings are lacking in Dynamics, or body? I just feel like they're missing a lot and I can't figure out what. The EQing helped but I can't get that togetherness I'm looking for, and its not very "in your face". Thanks for all the excellent help i got so far, but if you feel like continuing to help me please do, I'm sick of being a n00b!!

-Barrett

well, you can only do so much with a finished mix. a lot of the problems i found in your songs occurred in the tracking stage.

it's a learning curve--the more you record, the better you'll get at it. you wouldn't believe the horrid quality of my earliest recordings. they make your stuff sound like steely dan and pink floyd in the studio with steve jordan.

that's why it's important to keep perspective in mind. i think pretty much all posters here have agreed that your recordings are usable, to the point of being perfectly enjoyable. not of pro quality, but certainly a more than respectable beginning.

if you wanna re-record everything, more power to you. i find it's better to move on musically and sonically at the same time. ymmv.

 

[Rokket]

if you wanna re-record everything, more power to you. i find it's better to move on musically and sonically at the same time. ymmv.

Everytime I tried to re-record a song, I found that I lost the initial spark that prompted me to record it in the first place. The second one might have sounded better sonically, but it lacked the same luster as the original.

 

[Bguzaldo]

Everytime I tried to re-record a song, I found that I lost the initial spark that prompted me to record it in the first place. The second one might have sounded better sonically, but it lacked the same luster as the original.

Oh i don't plan to re-record these, i was using these as a examples of my work for suggestions on what i can improve in the future. But thanks for the undeserved praise haha.

To everyone that has helped: I'm actually working on sound proofing right now, I'm building wooden frames that I'm covering with fabric and then stuffing with padding, it's pretty cheap. Ill let you all know how it works and I'll post some recordings with the "treatment" other than that I've worked on EQing, and am looking into some new mic's for drums, this new akg c214 sister to the 414 looks like an affordable solution, and some CAD 177's for the toms and not sure on a kick yet, Im gonna use my Rode nt1000 and my GT67 for overheads and see how that goes. But thanks for all the help I'll keep you guys updated if you care.

Thanks a Pantsfull
-Barrett

 

[Rokket]

Post some songs in the mp3 clinic when you finish them.

 

[guitar zero]

I'm actually working on sound proofing right now, I'm building wooden frames that I'm covering with fabric and then stuffing with padding, it's pretty cheap. -Barrett

If at all possible, make sure if you're going to the trouble of making frames that the "padding" actually has sound absorbing qualities. I've found the best stuff to be rock wool. As good as owens corning 705 but lots cheaper. Here's a link:http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--Roxul-Rockboard-60-Case-of-6--RB60.html.

And by all means keep us posted with your progress. I second the recommendation that you post some of your new stuff over in the mixing clinic board.

 

[Bguzaldo]

well, you can only do so much with a finished mix. a lot of the problems i found in your songs occurred in the tracking stage.

it's a learning curve--the more you record, the better you'll get at it. you wouldn't believe the horrid quality of my earliest recordings. they make your stuff sound like steely dan and pink floyd in the studio with steve jordan.

that's why it's important to keep perspective in mind. i think pretty much all posters here have agreed that your recordings are usable, to the point of being perfectly enjoyable. not of pro quality, but certainly a more than respectable beginning.

if you wanna re-record everything, more power to you. i find it's better to move on musically and sonically at the same time. ymmv.

I don't expect to get there over night, but what steps would you advise i take if I want to move towards pro quality? I'm only 17 and I plan to record for the rest of my life, so I'd like to at least take a path to becoming as good as i can be. What would you suggest I do? Trade my firepod in for a DAW? Anything?

 

[drossfile]

I don't expect to get there over night, but what steps would you advise i take if I want to move towards pro quality? I'm only 17 and I plan to record for the rest of my life, so I'd like to at least take a path to becoming as good as i can be. What would you suggest I do? Trade my firepod in for a DAW? Anything?

start at the beginning. the source of any recording is the instrument. a good sounding and well-played instrument is #1. but the best drums, amps, voice, etc won't get accurately represented in a crappy room. so the room is just as important as the instrument. next in line is the mics, then preamps, and on down the signal chain.

the very best thing you can do (and it's not even that expensive) is treat your room. google "diy broadband absorbers" and you'll get some good step-by-step tutorials on making and placing traps. also, books on the art and science of recording are extremely useful. i bought "total recording" by david moulton, and it really lays a solid foundation for our understanding of gain structure, psychoacoustics, and frequencies. a great resource, but there are other books out there that i've seen recommended too.

some of my favorite web resources:

treatment

distorted guitars

mixing drums

southsideglen's site

 

[themaddog]

Cool sounding stuff. If you're looking for a "fuller/warmer" sound, you may want to try an analog machine. Check out the analog forumn; a great machine I started using around your age is a Tascam 388.

Best wishes,
-MD

 

[iqi616]

I don't expect to get there over night, but what steps would you advise i take if I want to move towards pro quality? I'm only 17 and I plan to record for the rest of my life, so I'd like to at least take a path to becoming as good as i can be. What would you suggest I do? Trade my firepod in for a DAW? Anything?

You didn't mention what monitors you're using.

I don't think you necessarily need better gear. Make sure you're getting the best out of what you have before upgrading. Pro quality starts with you. Take notice of drossfile's advice.

 

[Bguzaldo]

Haha Drossfile you've once again saved me from an early grave, thanks so much i can express how helpful you've been to me.

Forever indebted to you,
-Barrett

 

[Bguzaldo]

Thanks to everyone! I will post a new recording soon, I'm still working on it.