Some Thoughts on Compression

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starbuck26

starbuck26

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I've had a few things on my mind lately. I think everyone here is pretty much in agreement regarding the loudness war, and we also agree that there is way too much compression in modern rock. It doesn't need to be rehashed again.

That said, I've come across a few instances where the over-compressed mix, squashed to hell and back, actually works, and works well. So I thought maybe we can start a little discussion here of how and why it works, and see what lessons can be learned about the use of compression as an effect in and of itself in the studio.

The specific track I'm thinking about is Kids by MGMT. Here's a link to the youtube video. I think everyone here has probably heard this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIEOZCcaXzE

When I first heard this song I was shakin ma booty at a bar and didn't really notice or give a shit about the mix, I was tipsy and staring at boobies. But a couple days later I heard it in my car and turned it up a little bit. After the hook (the main synth lead), you can actually hear how the main bassy synth goes from being buried to SLAMMING YOU IN THE HEAD. You can hear it actually get noticeably louder. Well, not louder exactly, but certainly louder in context.

Pretty much every track in the mix sounds squashed to a flat line. There's virtually no dynamic swing to the entire mix, only perceived dynamics from pauses and things like that.

But: It works. And though it's probably accidental, the squashed mix actually reinforces the lyrics. "Take all that you need from me," he sings, and the mix is almost writhing under the weight of its own sound, as if to say the same thing.

Of course, this is not to say that I've now switched over and will start slamming everything into a brick because I want the kids who listen to my shitty songs and dance. On the contrary. But it's good sometimes to remind yourself that there's a reason for all of these over-compressed tracks, in some cases--I wouldn't say most cases, not by any stretch--but in some cases, the practice is warranted, and makes for a better mix.

That's a load off. Wondering what y'all think of this nonsense.
 
Well, starbuck, I think it goes to show that "what works" is not always an objective description. This song actually came up once before on this BBS a good year ago or so. I gotta be honest with you and say that I honestly find that THE most grating and annoying sounding mix I have ever heard. The only thing about that that "works" for me is that I know what to bring with me if I ever get a job as a Guantanamo inquisitor. Forcing someone to listen to that is worse torture than waterboarding.

I mean nothing personal, my friend; we are all allowed to have our own likes and dislikes. But I have to be completely honest here and say that that song, above all others, is the penultimate argument *against* pancaking for me.

Of course we all have our foible likes and dislikes based upon the circumstances under which we first heard the song. I'm sure I have some musical skeletons in my closet because they bring back memories of the time I first heard them, probably more than once because I was stoned and dealing with boobies at the time. ;) (Ever get laid to "Little Red Corvette"? ;) :D)

G.
 
I'm totally down with squashed, loud mixes. Even if for no other reason than to go against what old, stuck-in-the-70's, fuddy-duddy, audiophile snobs say.

Squash it loud and proud!


I will say though...the mix better be good before you squash it. Mega-compressing a bad mix makes it unlistenable.
 
I gotta agree with Glen about how Grating this track is. But, also on the subjective nature of these things.
I feel like this sort of song is probably the place, if there is one, for squashing the hell out of everything, though.
I hear a rock song, a folk song, some jazz, whatever, I wanna feel like I'm in the room with the people playing the instruments. You squash the hell out of a mix (as an effect, like in this MGMT song) of mostly live instrument, of a band playing in a room together, I feel like you lose that liveness, the natural dynamics created by the players responding to each other.
On the other hand, if you're making a dance mix that's pretty much entirely synths, you're not necessarily fighting to make your synthesized sounds sound like they are "in the room" with a band, you just want them all to pump and breathe together, get the asses on the floor.
So, yeah, I guess it has it's place.
And that place is with asses.
Sweaty, sweaty asses.:D
 
Fuck it....there are so many Lady Gagas and Britney clones making electronic music like this and making money...so we know it sells...but nobody cares for it long enough for it to be played on the radio for more than a month.

I like to use compression to keep tracks in check so there isnt any digital saturation and the drummer can go nuts if he wants...but too many people overdo it.
 
OK. I couldn't take any more of than 1 minute 20 seconds of it. And it wasn't because of the compression.

The excessive high shelf boost on the vocals, which in turn exacerbates exessive sibilance just killed it for me.

I liked the squashed snare sound. The synth bass isn't really compressed. It's going through distortion which is acting as a compressor there, kinda breathing, which is also fine... but man oh man, those vocals really kill it for me.

Personally, I'm not really against over compression. Sometimes I even like how cymbals pump with the kick and snare for example.

I also, depending on context, on some dance music, like when many of the elements (specially pads and reverb for example) are sidechained to the kick to cause them to pump rhythmically.

There is a place for everything. I also like overly distorted 808 kicks where they almost turn into square waves, in gabber tracks for example.

BUT NOT THIS MIX!!! I have it, hate it, hate it. I even hated the music itself. That high pitched synth sound too, it would fit well in some industrial track, but not in a cheeky stuff like this. Overall, I'll say it is a very distasteful mix.
 
you just want them all to pump and breathe together, get the asses on the floor.
So, yeah, I guess it has it's place.
And that place is with asses.
Sweaty, sweaty asses.:D
This is a conversation a friend of mine and I have all the time, because we have two different definitions of "music". Or maybe more properly, we live in two different musical worlds. There's music for listening enjoyment, and there's music designed specifically for the dance floor. The latter is what he mostly deals with, as he's into the whole trance DJ movement.

I accept and agree that smashing a dance floor mix is often appropriate, especially if you want your custys to hear anything more than the 808 kick. Just don't ask me to listen to it off the dance floor, and most definitely don't apply it to music meant to be listened to and mot just danced to.

It's not a question of taste or any kind of conscious prejudice; no more than it is when the sound of someone scraping their fingernails on a chalkboard sends the willies up one's back. It's not a conscious reaction, it's a basic human biological response.

G.
 
I accept and agree that smashing a dance floor mix is often appropriate, especially if you want your custys to hear anything more than the 808 kick. Just don't ask me to listen to it off the dance floor, and most definitely don't apply it to music meant to be listened to and mot just danced to.

G.

Glen hit the nail on the head. I DJ alot and have to listen to so much music outside of a club environment to plan sets and what not. Some of today's music is painful to listen to outside of a big room filled with drunk women and drunker men.
 
that that song, above all others, is the penultimate argument *against* pancaking for me.
"penultimate" means "second to last".
If I had a nickel for every time that word was misused. :D



But yeah. For all of the things this song might have going for it (the synth hook is really cool) the "pancake" is certainly not in it's favor.
 
"penultimate" means "second to last".
If I had a nickel for every time that word was misused. :D
How do you know it was misused? I want to hear Glen's ultimate reason :)

That song kind of sucks. Maybe because I got married young and missed the young adult club scene completely.

I dunno - theoretically I can accept that there could be music without any dynamics.
 
..I will say though...the mix better be good before you squash it. Mega-compressing a bad mix makes it unlistenable.

Or, on/at that particular point maybe you're the ol' stick-in-the-mud then, stuck in some old silly notion about 'listening/quality' thing...

:rolleyes:

:p;)
 
no more than it is when the sound of someone scraping their fingernails on a chalkboard sends the willies up one's back.
So, I was at the dentist last week, and the sound of his drill was quite relaxing. It was interesting because even when the pitch went up and down, it would always do it in parallel minor 6ths. I wonder why it was playing minor 6th. Anyways, it was rather soothing and... uh... consonant :D
 
So, I was at the dentist last week, and the sound of his drill was quite relaxing. It was interesting because even when the pitch went up and down, it would always do it in parallel minor 6ths. I wonder why it was playing minor 6th. Anyways, it was rather soothing and... uh... consonant :D
Well, suck up enough nitrous oxide and anything will sound pleasant to you ;) :D.

I've been told (by an old friend who had perfect pitch) that the fan on my microwave oven hums with an A-D interval. That has no bearing on this thread, obviously, but I figured if you were sucking up Redi-Whip propellant at home, you might find that vaguely interesting ;).

G.
 
Well, suck up enough nitrous oxide and anything will sound pleasant to you ;) :D.
I KNEW you were going to say that! :D

No Nitrous Oxide involved whatsoever. Just a topical anasthetic. I think I am really messed up. I get irritated when I listen to "soothing" music, but "irritating" noises have this calming effect on me, to the point where I can even sleep to them :rolleyes:

Having said that, the vocals on this track definitely didn't work for me.
 
I've been told (by an old friend who had perfect pitch) that the fan on my microwave oven hums with an A-D interval. That has no bearing on this thread, obviously, but I figured if you were sucking up Redi-Whip propellant at home, you might find that vaguely interesting ;).

G.

Haha! I find that very interesting... But I'm just sad like that. :D

Dr. V
 
MGMT rock...yir all just old fannies...get yir knitting out, suck a worthers original, and reminisce about the old days
 
man, listening to this was a great confidence builder for my own feeble efforts... also learned this today: If I ever post a mix, say it's somebody elses...
 
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