Some of the transparent "ups" and "downs" of compression

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Broken_Hal0

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Im quite new to producing music and recording in general .And when i say new I have been doing it for about 6 odd years now.Ive been noticing more and more lately the need for budding producers to look for something "more" for their vocals.What that "more" is I dont even know but I think along the way there are some points being missed.When you hear a song play on the radio most people dont question the fact of why the vocals sound clean , or why bert mcKracken isnt destoying your speakers with his shreiks.COMPRESSION is the most important thing you could possibly do with your vocal tracks , in the tracking stage and in the mixing stage.That was the first thing I learned when I got into this type of business and to this day am still learning how to use it well . Vocals change every song and henceforth need a different setting for compression.Being able to make a voice "transparent" ,where you cannot tell when compression is attacking and releasing is a fine art.In this rant I am on , i am not saying that there is no hope for new producers , but the first thing you should do is look into outboard compression that fits into the recording chain before it goes into the computer.I only use behringer autocoms for my compression but it gets the job done for me , and in time when I make that jump to maybe an avalon or millenium ,I will have mastered the skills to the point where I will be able to do that much more just based on the quality it will have been worth all the time and the days.......nights.....weeks.......months.....years figuring out all this crap about stupid compression!!!!

Some very useful information comes from this site
http://www.tweakheadz.com/compressors.htm.

Check out some of my music at
www.myspace.com/brokenhalorocks

THE AMBULANCE SONG IS THE ONLY SONG I HAVE DONE IN STUDIO
THE REST WERE PUT TOGETHOR SONGS!!!!REMEMBER

Hope my rant was informative to a point
good luck to everyone starting up and trying to make it!!

and remember its about the music

Broken
The Little Studio

Gear

2 x Behringer autocom pro compressor (4 channels of compression)
1-behringer ada 8000 autoclock/ada unit
event tr-6 studio monitors
Soundcraft spirit fx-8

comp side (the big brains )
antec sonata 2 quiet case
asus p5rd1-v mobo
pentium 4 3.0 ghz 800mhz fsb
CREAMWARE SCOPE PROJECT 6 DSP (The best soundcard in the world)
Cubase sx 3.0
Sonar Cakewalk producer edition version 5
tonnes of ik media
waves diamond bundle eq mixing mastering package
dual monitor vertical setup
geforce 7300 gts 2

euipment side (yeah it keeps going)
Marshall advanced valve tech 2 x10
gibson les paul studio edition
yamaha psr 273 - midi controller
1976 ludwig ringo star signature set .
toms 13" . , 14" . 18" , 24"
Evans hydralics , tops and bottoms
Vintage ludwig 14" x 6" silver snare , evans tops/bottoms
Mapex 13" x 4"' brass piccollo snare
Ludwig vintage speedball pedal / hi hat

Mics
1 - shure sm57 (top snare)
1 - Studio projects c1 condensor (vocals)
7 piece samson drum mic set (minus kick mic)
1 - senheiser e-604 close mic (bottom snare)
1 - behringer b-5 pencil condensor (hi hat)
1 - AKG D112 - BEST KICK DRUM MIC EVER
1 - rapco pre -amps
 
Be first to reply here , the ambulance song needs to be reposted on myspace acount here , il have it back by tommorrow , i suggest checking it out , the rest on that site are done with crappy equipment from about 3 years ago , still ok , but nothing compares to real drums in a song.Il have my "actual" song on the site by tommorrow

Broken
The Little Studio
 
Proper mic techniques and vocal talent is the most important thing to a track!
Signal processing s/b used only to compensate and adjust the dynamics of any particular track perf. In addition a track's perf with a good mic & hi-quality preamp (along with having some talent) are far more important than a
a compressor, which is only a "tool" used to fix certain audio probs in the dynmaics performance.

Lastly, Beh's AutoComm's are at the best, average & more suitable for instrument dynamics and not vocals! I've owned both the Auto & Composer
but now work with the RNC as it's a much better unit!!


In the future, kindly post your songs in the MP3 forum.
 
You both make very good points.

On the one hand, the source is king. The vocalist and his/her mic technique ... along with the tools and expertise used to capture it. Absolutely nothing could be more important.

However, once you have that nailed down ... I will agree that there is perhaps no single process more crucial than compression. Compression is the sound of modern pop records. It is what places the vocal up front in the mix ... and it is what gives it the extra sprinkling of magic.

If you feel comfortable using a piece of Behringer gear or some free VST plugin for that process ... and in the hands of someone who hasn't mastered the art of using it (namely yourself) ... go right ahead. But don't complain or be surprized if it doesn't measure up to the standards you had originally set in your mind.

.
 
chessrock said:
You both make very good points.

On the one hand, the source is king. The vocalist and his/her mic technique ... along with the tools and expertise used to capture it. Absolutely nothing could be more important.

However, once you have that nailed down ... I will agree that there is perhaps no single process more crucial than compression. Compression is the sound of modern pop records. It is what places the vocal up front in the mix ... and it is what gives it the extra sprinkling of magic.

If you feel comfortable using a piece of Behringer gear or some free VST plugin for that process ... and in the hands of someone who hasn't mastered the art of using it (namely yourself) ... go right ahead. But don't complain or be surprized if it doesn't measure up to the standards you had originally set in your mind.

.
Click to expand...


Nothing to complain about, Bowies producer uses them for a reason, they work good, and if they work for Bowie you can bet they are certainly good enough to work for you. Now, I used a Behringer compressor on a track I had posted out here and don't take this the wrong way but the recording as a whole and the vocals sounded as good as anything and better than most pro done recordings out here I've ever heard. Why is it Bowie's producer and I can get such a great sound from such a cheap piece of gear? I hear Alex whatever his name is from Rush uses a Behringer V-Amp pro. Can't confirm it, but I would not be surprised, it sounds as good as any high end amp mod I've heard. Heck, my brother has an $1,100 USA strat, I have a $200 dollar import, both play great, both are built great although his has better tuners and finish, but even he agrees the sound is just different, his doesn't sound "better" and he plays and records with mine as much as his own. The problem is most people never tried the gear they put down or they've only tried one ot two pieces or they don't know how to make good recordings to begin with and blame it on the gear. Why do many pros recommend the RNC and RNP? Why do they have such a good reputation? Heck, they are cheap for sure. Most people don't get nearly as much as they can out of what gear they do have and think the answer is in better gear, it's not always the case.
 
Seriously, half of these guys are full of shit. Seriously, I've talked to enough so-called big name engineers in my time. They're not particularly unapproachable, by the way. But most all of them I've noticed have a little bit of the "a good mechanic doesn't give away his tools" theory, and sometimes just for shits and giggles, they'll just throw shit out there and see what kind of reaction it gets, because they're just goofy like that.

When you read that Bowie's producer used a composer on "Let's Dance," or some stupid crap like that ... it's a fair bet the guy is messing with you. And you're buying in to it.

:D
 
chessrock said:
Seriously, half of these guys are full of shit. Seriously, I've talked to enough so-called big name engineers in my time. They're not particularly unapproachable, by the way. But most all of them I've noticed have a little bit of the "a good mechanic doesn't give away his tools" theory, and sometimes just for shits and giggles, they'll just throw shit out there and see what kind of reaction it gets, because they're just goofy like that.

When you read that Bowie's producer used a composer on "Let's Dance," or some stupid crap like that ... it's a fair bet the guy is messing with you. And you're buying in to it.

:D
Click to expand...

And thus, the inner-workings of Capitalism and a society that embraces free speech and press. Good summary, Chessrock. :) :) :)
 
Sorry for not really commenting on your original topic. I agree, vocals sound a lot different if you put them through a Great River straight with nothing else on them. Depends on the vocalist and how good they are, and that even has sub-catgories...how well do they stay in tune, how good are they at approaching the mic and backing away to not need compression during the higher-keyed, lower-keyed, higher-emotion,lower-emotion, louder instrumentation, etc, etc, parts? I suck at it, personally, so you bet on my vocals you will have a little compression. My voice is great live, but is a BITCH to get on track evenly. For me, and my particular tone and style, joemeek is the way to go, and I use their channels on the way into my Mackie 24 ch. 8 buss mixer. I get a leveling and enhancement of what my voice sounds like naturally, which isn't too terrible, and after working everything to where it sounds right to me, I'm happy. That's just me, though. To each style you will have different challenges. :) :)

EDIT: Oh yeah, I only record my own stuff. If I was recording other people, I would want something in addition with a different flavor, and in an ideal world if I recorded for a living I would want a different flavor microphone, pre, compressor and effects to cover each of the obviously different vocal situations you would run into, not only from different styles of music, different styles of vocals withing each genre of music, then to male/female, personal styles, and how they sing. When you get into that, I agree with a lot of the seasoned people in this forum who like transparent setups....statistically speaking in that environment, transparent would be the safest bet. Variety, if you can afford it, would be the absolute safest bet. :)

EDIT-EDIT: Absoutely the performer is the most critical aspect of how good a recording will be. But there are toys that can make shit into shinola. It will still be, as I've heard Blue Bear quote maybe he was or was not the original source of that, a "polished turd". But if you take a limp turd and can turn it into something polished and somewhat appealing, well, I guess there is always a market out there for anything. The right equipment can make decent performers sound semi-professional in the right hands and great performers sound professional. Starts with the source, but that is just the beginning of the process.
 
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I honestly dont get it

When I posted this , I had assumed by this point that the person in front of the mic knows what they are doing in the regards to technique and henceforth.i dont beleive that a vocalist should step in front of a mic to track unless they understand the process.Why are the engineers making up for the misatkes of another professional whos job is particulary to sing?And further along the matter of the idea that you absolutely need to have the best equipment is ridiculous I think.Ask producers for The Beatles , Hendrix , Joplin , Dylan what they used , they used what they had , so be it that it was even quite expensive in their time , but the difference is , is that was all they had , there was not a "flavour" for every type of vocal and style. There was a job to be doine and I honestly think alot of us are missing that point.Our job is not to be the best most absolute articulate producer out there.Our job is to create a powerfull message and a voice for people to hear.Go ahead and use your autotune , and melodyne shit.If it came down to me being a producer for some artist who DIDNT have vocal talents / techniques on the mic , but I had the BEST of everything to make it sound better , I would rather beg for change on the street.Its about the music and the represnetation of it.

I think we should stop worrying about what the most expensive unit in our rig is and how we can make it so "perfect" and look at what is behind the mics , maybe then all that "shitty" equipment that for some of us is all that we can afford will do its job like its supposed to.

Broken
 
Br0ken, I'm just gonna say that I like the Ambulance song. Cool.

The RNC kills just about any Berri comp., try one and crap yourself!
 
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