Some nice mics.

F

FoofChunk

New member
So I've been going a bit crazy with the whole studio improvement/gear acquisition thing lately. I finally got to the point where the next step was buying THE mic, as in something to use as my #1 vocal mic and whatever else it works on. I really had only 2 parameters going in: 1 - under $3k; 2 - sounds the best to me regardless of cost. This meant I was going to keep an open mind across that range and not just buy a U87 because of the name.

Today I went in with the singer in my band and did some demo recordings with what looks to be the final candidates:

- Neumann U87ai
- AKG 414 (don't remember which version....i think the newest one)
- Gefell M930 (the guy just tells me, "try this, it's a Neumann from the other side of the Berlin wall")
- Neumann TLM127
- AEA R84 (a ribbon)

Before today, I was not familiar with either the Gefell or AEA mics. Here are my general thoughts on each mic after listening a lot to the test recordings:

U87 - Outstanding clarity and air. Everything I could ask for. The benchmark.

414 - Nice, especially at its price point, but a bit bright and overall just not in the same league as the other mics in the bunch.

Gefell - What a wonderful surprise. Such a rich, smooth sound out of such a tiny, tiny mic. Also insanely quiet. Not quite as sparkly as the U87, but still has all the air up top.

TLM127 - Sounds like a Neumann, just not quite as nice as the U87 or Gefell.

R84 - A ribbon mic. EQ flat sounds like mud, but with a little top boost really comes to life. Very smooth sounding. Definitely the quirkiest of the bunch. I think this could be great for certain applications (I'm imagining guitar cabs), but not quite as wellrounded as the rest.


I sorta lied in saying the price wasn't a factor as long as it was under $3k. Obviously the price is going to factor in somewhat. That's the main reason I included the TLM127 in the bunch, as a lower-priced Neumann. While listening to the samples, I had no clue what the Gefell or R84 cost. I was dreading looking that up and finding the Gefell right at the $3k limit. Turns out, it looks like it actually runs about $11-1200.

So it's looking right now like I'm going to get the Gefell M930. When it came down to evaluating the mics purely on sound, I would be thrilled with either the U87 or the M930. I can't ignore, though, the fact that I can get the M930 AND another mic (like the R84 ribbon for $1k), or a nice voice channel strip, or a bunch of hookers and coke, all for what the U87 would cost without even including the outrageous ripoff of a shockmount.

Before I make my purchase, though, I thought I'd put it out there for any suggestions of a mic that might suit me that I've missed. I see a lot of threads every day discussing the range of chinese mics, etc, and not much in this range. I'm by no means a pro (although I have my aspirations), but I can afford to splurge a little on my main passion in life, so I think this fits in fine with the homerecording setting. I have no problem with the chinese mics, for what they are. I own a pair of SP C4s that I got for just over 300 bucks and they've treated me very nicely as overheads. This particular quest, though, was for THE mic, not THE mic for THE price.

-Foof
 
Firstly, modern day Neumanns are way over-priced. They are still a very good product, but are simply not the mics they used to be, but still cost the same as they always did. Sennheiser now ownes Neumann.

Gefell is the original Neumann.. and I think the Neumann family are now back in control of it. So you could say that they are the real Neumann. You can read a bit of the story here.
Also note that the 930 is their entry level LDC. And it absolutely smokes it's Neumann equivalent, the TLM-103. You can get a matched pair of these for around the same price as a U87ai. But look at the other Gefell models too.

But you should consider some other brands too......
Soundelux (the U99 or e250 IMHO would smoke the U87ai)
Brauner (Velvet, Phantom C)
Blue (lots to choose from here, but try them first. They all have their own sound that may or may not suit your voice.)
 
The R84 can "sound" muddy (ribbons are like that, usually) but with the right application/singer it can sound amazing. Also it's really workable with EQ and compression. I've been using my 1970's U87 with my RCA 44BX (AEA is the RCA clone masters for a third of the price of a real RCA) behind the Neumann. The combo of the two "slurps" the tone quite nicely when needed.

I've recorded vocalists using only using the 44BX and I've recorded vocalists only using the U87 but I've never been truly happy with either on their own. It's only when I combine them where I get really excited. It's KINDA the trick David Bowie used incorporating two mics in the room while one was gated therefore the far mic would "open" to louder parts.

Mics are weird, just like singers. I have no "one" mic that works for everyone. It's nice that you had a chance to try a few out. As far as my thinking goes, I'd set up two mics on the singer and go from there. Cover your bases. It's kinda like setting up for a guitar cab; you want to get high and low. Well, set up two different mics placed in different spots.... why can't vocals be treated the same way? I've been thrilled so far with two or more mics on vocals for years now.

-- Adam Lazlo
 
It's not surprising that you liked the Gefell. They are incredble mics. Given your original budget, you should really check out other Gefells, as well as some other mics. The Gefell UM 92.1S, UMT 800 amd M71S are all great mics too. There's a used UM 92 at Tidepool Audio (the 92 is the virtually the same as the 92.1) for $1,400. Also check out Lawson and Soundelux mics.
 
Gefell's

I'm really interested in these Gefell's does anyone no a site with information about vintage Geffell's?

Tried there homepage couldn't find anything about older models.

I'll keep looking and post anything I find

Surf's Up
 
Surf's Up said:
I'm really interested in these Gefell's does anyone no a site with information about vintage Geffell's?

Tried there homepage couldn't find anything about older models.

I'll keep looking and post anything I find

Surf's Up
Click to expand...

I suggest you check out the current models. They are incredible. If you want to research vintage Gefells, it will take some effort as there's no one site that has significant info. It would be quite a research project.
 
sdelsolray said:
It's not surprising that you liked the Gefell. They are incredble mics. Given your original budget, you should really check out other Gefells, as well as some other mics. The Gefell UM 92.1S, UMT 800 amd M71S are all great mics too. There's a used UM 92 at Tidepool Audio (the 92 is the virtually the same as the 92.1) for $1,400. Also check out Lawson and Soundelux mics.
Click to expand...

Thanks everyone for the replies. I'm gonna go in and check out some of those other models today I think. At this point, though, I expect that I'll be picking up the 930. The sound of that mic blew me away and it leaves room in the budget that I didn't think I'd have when I started this quest. I didn't want to sacrifice on the mic budget to account for other things, but considering how much I liked that Gefell mic, I can't ignore the price advantage. I still love the U87, but at this point I don't forsee myself getting one anytime soon; the Gefell line seems to capture that sound at a much more reasonable cost.

-Foof
 
Try the Studio Projects T3 too.

That's the only "under $500" LDC I feel major gearlust for so far.

Then you'd have plently of room left in the budget for a EV RE20 and/or a Shure SM7.

Chris
 
I tried out the M930, AEA R84 ribbon and the Soundelux u195 when I was shopping. I agree with the comment on the AEA needing some help with EQ, so I passed. On the other hand, it was a really tough choice between the Soundelux and the Gefell. But, I went with the M930 and have never regretted it. I really liked the way it sounds running through a John Hardy preamp.
 
The R84 (and other ribbons) aren't a condensor mic sound, that's what your condensors are for. Ribbons slay on guitar cabs, drums, mic'ing of acoustic instruments and as room mics, also very good on all kinds of strings. It can sound utterly huge and yes, they don't have that bright high end that makes us all think the mic at the music store sounds so much better on the showroom floor.

A ribbon is a different animal altogether, but to say it needs EQ to sound right isn't correct. If you want it to sound like a condensor then don't buy it, buy a condensor. The R84 is one of the sweetest additions I've made in my studio and offers a very natural sound and a huge image when I place it to give me that. Anyone sick of only being able to reach for a tizzy high end sounding condensor mic on all sources should seriously consider a ribbon. Anyone looking for seriously smokin' electric guitar cab mic'ing it's a no brainer and will, aside from your guitar rig, net a tremendous difference in the way you work and the sound you end up with.

Sorry, I ain't hatin'......peace outside....

War
 
Well, I ended up going with the Gefell M930. 930 bucks even (how appropriate). I love this mic....what a wonderful surprise after not even knowing it existed a week ago. Even better, we've discovered that it fits nicely, albeit a bit snug, in the elastic shockmounts that come with the C4s, so that's another couple hundo of 'found money'.

The one downside is how cheap it is - lemme explain:
I went into this quest expecting to lay down over 2 grand, so I figured I'd make that purchase, and it would be my last big purchase for awhile. Now that I've got the mic for so much less, I'm getting a huge itch to go and buy a bunch more stuff, by far eclipsing the money I saved on this mic; for example, that Manley Voxbox was looking really pretty sitting alone in its rack, singing me its siren song.

So my recommendation to people in similar positions is: get a U87 if you need to spend a lot of money to get your G.A.S. ya-ya's out. Otherwise, get a Gefell and be happy.

-Foof
 
So how much more do you have to spend? ;)

And what is your current gear list?

..... I'm sure we can help you spend the rest LOL.


Actually, If I was in your shoes I would have bought a matched pair of the Gefells.
 
Markd102 said:
So how much more do you have to spend? ;)

And what is your current gear list?

..... I'm sure we can help you spend the rest LOL.


Actually, If I was in your shoes I would have bought a matched pair of the Gefells.
Click to expand...

Heh, where to start. I really need to make a master list of needs and priorities. I figure this will get me on that road. My budget isn't really fixed. I generally have a fair amount of discretionary income each month, but I can't go spending it ALL on recording gear. Anyway, here's a little list of stuff to get still:

- Nice tube voice channel (either allinone, like the VoxBox, or seperate pres/comps/etc)
- New monitoring setup (not the speakers, but the control....something like the presonus central station)
- New computer (something beefy, so I can go to 96khz for everything)
- patchbay (most of my stuff is done in the box right now, but with some more outboard gear, i'm gonna need a decent patching setup)
- control surface
- Vox AC30 guitar amp.
- Ribbon mic.
- while we're at it, why not throw in the Manley line mixer do all the summing....that's only like $9k.
 
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